Hey, you know what would be wild? Having a link to the old YKTTW to see if this discussion has come up before. The link could be put on the discussion page!
Sarcastic faux hypotheses aside, your concerns really have been brought up and addressed before, and all the examples are still within the bounds of the trope description. Including the ones you deleted.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.Westrim, the fact that it was brought up in the YKTTW doesn't mean that it can't be a problem. And dial back the attitude, even if you did launch it.
Looking at the YKTTW:
- The write-up acknowledges that it needed a better title, but it was launched with the bad one anyway.
- The definition starts out saying that it's Earth-That-Was But Less or Crapsack World But On Earth
- there was no discussion of the trope itself, just a lot of example-adding.
- Finally, there's not consistent way it's used, because as it's defined, the only thing necessary to list a work that there's been a sizeable off-planet migration from earth.
edited 4th Aug '11 8:16:49 AM by Madrugada
Then perhaps it should be better defined, and not holding a personal grudge against anyone who questions exactly what a page is defined as. The page says that being a Crapsack World is optional but not required.
The first point Madrugada raises is one of the major YKTTW faux-pas, but hold on — wasn't this thing launched back in 2010?
edited 4th Aug '11 9:55:46 AM by Stratadrake
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.^^^^ My sarcasm was not because I launched it and DSFARGEG is criticizing it, it's because he didn't do some basic checking before doing so. His concern was specifically addressed in the very first two comments of the YKTTW, and I explained my position there. If he didn't think that was sufficient and wanted more discussion on it that's fine, but trope repair shop discussions should not be casually plastered on pages and should have a little more thought put into their genesis. It bugs me no matter which page I see it on, since the corresponding discussion page -which should be the first step, so far as I know, in addressing a concern about a page- is almost always blank, or at least devoid of mention of the issue.
Addressing your concerns:
1. The title was changed. The talk about changing is partially an artifact, mostly still there because I thought this might be too long or unwieldy (comment 6 from the bottom or so; I wish they were numbered), but it's held up well. So yes, that concern was addressed.
2. It's saying that those are comparable tropes, not that they are this trope, but to a different degree. Perhaps I should pin them to the end to make that more clear, but I was focused on describing the trope.
3. Skimming, I see at least 5 that discuss the trope itself. Also, it underwent significant editing after most of the comments in response to their concerns (which probably led to issue 2).
4. All of the examples still have some degree of degradation of the planet as a major past or present concern in the story. I created the trope for all the works where Earth is neither forgotten nor the center of everything, but everywhere I looked it still lost luster or power as the homeworld of humanity, and the added examples still hold to that. Even Halo has the surface partially destroyed, and lots of conflicts in the backstory that did major damage. Seems fine to me.
I bumped it 20-30 times (with comments and edits) over the course of two months. I couldn't exactly force anyone to ask the questions you feel weren't addressed adequately. I've never watched Crapsack World, so if some works have been moved in there that should be here, that needs to be addressed; I'll look later.
EDIT: Sorry, since I started typed this more comments have been made. Reading now. EDIT 2: Read, pretty much already covered by what I've already written.
edited 4th Aug '11 10:37:02 AM by Westrim
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.Uh—first of all, it doesn't matter if the YKTTW makes the distinction: if it is not apparent in the trope page itself, the trope has failed. You prematurely launched a premature trope.
The trope as it reads now is muddy and indistinct. I'm having trouble parsing out what it's trying to be. Why is there such emphasis placed on migration when the trope is about the Earth being decayed? That seems like an aspect, not a requirement. If people have migrated off of Earth, that's its own distinct trope, unrelated to how nice/crappy it is, I imagine. It's probably going to be crappy most of the time, but there we are. Then there's "Earth is decaying" as a trope.
If it's going to be kept, I would suggest renaming it to something along the lines of Abandoned Earth and making it a supertrope to Earth-That-Was.
Hrm, not really abandoned. What's the word for a place that's left mostly empty by emigration? I know there was one... Ghost Town Earth... no, that has the wrong implications... I guess Mostly Abandoned Earth or some such thing, but really... Discarded Earth? Earth Left Behind? Gah. It's harder to name than it seems.
Abandoning Earth would work, if it's about the out-migration itself. If it's supposed to be about the condition of the Earth, that's But Less/But More territory
edited 4th Aug '11 12:02:39 PM by Madrugada
The Same But More Specific, The Same But More, and The Same But Less are all equivalent (roughly, in the case of the first) and equally bad.
edited 20th Feb '12 9:00:07 PM by rodneyAnonymous
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.Good thing the trope is none of those, then. Earth-That-Was is quite specific about Earth being abandoned, negating comparisons to this trope, which is quite specific about earth still being occupied. There is still an issue of too much focus on quality of life on the perhaps no longer blue marble, when it should be on the offworld population, so a name change probably would be a good thing. None of the ones suggested so far seem to work to me, though.
edited 20th Feb '12 9:53:16 PM by Westrim
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.The name strongly implies it is exactly The Same But for Crapsack World and Earth-That-Was. The description doesn't help; it could explicitly describe the differences between this and those.
edited 20th Feb '12 9:40:13 PM by rodneyAnonymous
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.I'd like to change this sentence:
To this for grammar:
The three variables are how many people still live here, their standard of living, and how much damage has been done; all three are related to how far into the future the story is set.
edited 21st Feb '12 8:49:56 AM by ArcadesSabboth
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

It's supposed to be a milder version of Earth-That-Was (which is also being used as a secondary Crapsack World).