Man I had a bunch of huge pics showing anime Art Evolution over the years but I lost them when I old computer died.... GIS is failing me....
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Despite what Signed said, there have been a decent number of well portrayed characters of African descent in anime and manga that I've seen.
The protagonist of Knights, even with the manga's simple art style, has clear African features, and... well. I'm going to assume he's attractive by anime standards, even if I can't tell what those are any more. His race isn't just an excuse for an exotic hero, either, but is used to illustrate just how crapsack things are in the setting for people that don't meet with the standards of the church.
- Avdol from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Bonus points for being popular enough a character to survive a few volumes longer than he was planned to.
- Lenora, Iris, and eventually Marshal from Pokémon.
- Bob from Tenjho Tenge.
- Killer Bee and some other characters I can't name from Naruto.
edited 6th Aug '11 9:56:41 AM by Hashil
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what a great list
saving those images
im interested in the arsty animes since they look interesting
as well as the minimalist which included my all-time favorite comedy, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei
i love the fact they recommended Musashi Gundoh for quality
edited 5th Aug '11 3:54:38 AM by CommanderObvious
This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?Well, if we're counting manga, the protagonist of Blaster Knuckle is a non-caricatured, non-stereotypical black guy. And he's BADASS!
And there's also Me And The Devil Blues, which is Very Loosely Based on a True Story of Robert Johnson's life. Oh, and this is another manga that doesn't use the typical anime-style of drawing.
edited 5th Aug '11 4:06:28 AM by Nexus
Hnggg honestly OP, contemporary anime style - a dark road? That's a little melodramatic, isn't it? It sounds like you're simply complaining about a medium that you don't like. I don't read American comic books cause I dislike the style, but I don't go to comic book forums and whine about how all comic books look the same and how they should tone down the muscle and that all the big-boobed, small-waisted women exist as fanservice.
Also how dare you insult the Medicine Seller's sublime character design. "Just a generic bishie"? That's like calling Joker's design "typical comic book villain". That's like calling Dark Yuugi "just a generic bishie" (there has never been hair, and will never be hair ever like his again for all of anime/manga eternity). There are plenty of generic bishies in the anime/manga world created by inferior artists, but to include MS among them is a tad ridiculous. The amount of research and thought and creativity put into his design just blows me away.
But really, that's not the most important part. Did you just imply Mononoke is disqualified from having a unique art style simply because its protagonist is a man and happens to be beautiful? I don'e even know how to react to that - Mononoke's style is absolutely one of its kind. Gankutsuou is roughly in the same ball park yet completely different. Of course, you could say that Mononoke's art style isn't really that original, its Gonk character designs are simply a throwback to an older era where those kinds of designs were the norm. But then, like someone pointed out earlier, that's true of Jojo as well; remember that it started serializing - what? - thirty years ago? And while its art style seems oh so different and unique and shiny now to our contemporary eyes, it's really somewhat of a "typical" product of an earlier generation. It also has similarities in style to Hong Kong comics as well.
I note that you're not complaining how the young girls in Mononoke are generic cuties. Not that I'm saying that they are, it just seems hypocritical to call one of the most iconic, striking MC character designs generic (when there are so many other anime/mangas with "generic" male MC character designs), but when girls are drawn prettily, it's totally okay, even though it's generic?
From your first post, it seems that what you're having beef with isn't really anime/manga style in general - it's mostly just the Bishōnen trope that you dislike (which would make the above paragraph irrelevant). And you feel like that it's taking anime/manga down a dark, ominous path of doom. I personally think it's refreshing to have a visual medium that actually caters to girls and women who like their boys to look beautiful instead of having boring old generic muscular masculine designs. The vast majority of human history has artists churning of works that appeal to male aesthetics - I think it's great to see a visual medium where that's not necessarily the case. See Bishōnen Jump Syndrome for more details.
I do see where you're coming from, though. Anime/manga in general tends towards Generic Cuteness, no matter what the art style is like. And you don't like Generic Cuteness. Maybe that's your real problem. You like facial definition (but not in your females, maybe?), whereas anime/manga in general tends to stylize and smooth out facial abnormalities in order to create a more aesthetically pleasing look. You know how the more "standard" a face is, the more attractive it tends to be? Look up one of the face mixers and try it for yourself. The more faces you mix together, the closer to an "average" human face it is, and subsequently the more attractive it is.
Anime/manga is a medium that, in general, in our contemporary times, revolves around looking pretty or attractive or beautiful. Like how music is a medium that revolves around evoking emotions. They don't always succeed, and that's not always true of every single piece (I've heard pieces of music that deliberately set out to not evoke an emotional response, but engage you intellectually instead), but that's the general gist of things. And that's why it's popular, I guess. Instead of complaining about how pretty a medium is, shouldn't you appreciate the vast diversity of characters and styles that are present while still managing to look oh so appealing (in general)? Even though Mononoke dives straight into Gonk territory (absolutely refreshing to see some ugly people in a medium where everybody of serious importance tends to look nice - like in Hollywood), the visual designs, the animation style, the costumes, the use of color etc are absolutely gorgeous. Btw, for Mononoke, the fact that MS looks beautiful while all other characters save a few are Gonk is an absolutely genius use of the Bishonen trope (not generic bishie, mind you, just bishie). It's justified, because like in real life, most boys just aren't that pretty, but there are some who DO look like that. It also instantly sets the Medicine Seller apart from all those Gonk-looking characters; the fact that he is the most beautiful, colorful, striking character in a sea of Gonk enhances the implication (well, less implied and more stated right out) that the MS is inhuman and immortal, with powers that none of the human, imperfect-looking characters possess. MS is not human, so it makes sense to use his visual appearance to emphasize that idea - that he is somehow above human ugliness and imperfection.
In any case, if you think anime/manga all look the same, and if you don't like bishies, you should probably look elsewhere for your entertainment purposes. American comics perhaps? Their men seem like they tend to have chins and noses.
EDIT: Why the hell is Hunter X Hunter not under monster design?
edited 5th Aug '11 4:30:31 AM by Anarchy
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I guess he was talking about facial designs. Still, most some of the arguments he made so far border on Insane Troll Logic.
As someone who has taken figure illustration, I have learned to hate noses and mouths....
Also, know whats funny? If an anime has even the smallest of noses (you know, often the little flick of ink, whatever) it doesn't bother me, but if there is NO nose drawn, it bugs the hell out of me (Yu Gi Oh Manga for example I believe has no noses, if memory serves)
Good job responding to the least relevant part of my post. Most of it had nothing to do with Mononoke, which you seem to think was the only point of my post. Meaning that you didn't even skim it; or maybe you did and you just chose to ignore everything that has to do with to do with the actual topic - strange for someone who's asking a question and presumably wants other people's opinions and answers and discussion - or maybe I was just mistaken and you're just here to complain and reinforce your own opinions and instead of maybe examining them a little bit.
Re: Medicine Seller
First of all, I was talking about his character design as a whole, not just his face. But I'll roll with what you give me.
Sophistication? What does that have to do with anything? It's like saying using watercolors is sophisticated but using acrylics is not. Everyone has a different way of creation. If someone wants to design a face super realistically with bumps and imperfections, that's one way of doing it. If someone wants to take human features and stylize them - say, enlarge the nose so that it looks like a balloon, make the eyes into dots, blow up the mouth and emphasize the lip wrinkles - that's another way of doing it. If someone takes a face and inverts the colors, that's yet another interesting way of facial design. Some women make their own facial designs more interesting by applying makeup. Actors use make up to help create the illusion of a character. Likewise, emphasizing the bridge of the nose and lining the eyes with red, highlighting just the upper lip with purple, adding very specific styles of pointy ears and fangs (you'll notice that his ears are slightly puffy and fleshy, and their outline almost resembles butterfly wings, a strong visual motif throughout the anime - again, it's a strong, deliberate artistic choice, not just "aha pointy ears how boring"),the choice of shaping the eyes to be narrow and pupil-less, the choice of that particular texture and shade of gray for the hair, the shaping of the hair itself and how it frames his face, the shape of his eyebrows etc (his eyebrows actually have a interesting shape to them, which is more than I can say for a lot of visual medium cartoon characters) - all of that is a good way of facial design.
Sophistication lies not in the tools you chose to design a face, but in how you execute whatever method you choose. Color pencils can be absolutely atrocious in the hands of a kindergartener, but sublime in the hands of a master artist. For you, sophistication means "yes, this is a face that I like and approve of" - anything other than that is unsophisticated, no matter how complex or unique or visually interesting or how much work went into it. And you can't really deny that Medicine Seller's facial design is visually interesting. Or that his character design as a whole is complex, beautifully executed, sophisticated, and really not like anything else you've seen in cartoons, American or Japanese. It's unique. To say that his character design is bland or generic is honestly, quite ridiculous. It's like saying, I don't know, Lord of the Rings is not epic or that Watchmen is a typical superhero comic.
I think what you should do is accept that you have a certain personal taste in facial designs, and that if artists choose not to cater to your interests, it doesn't make them bad or unsophisticated artists. Your personal taste is just that. Don't use it as a universal standard to judge everything. An example of what I mean: I don't think the Mona Lisa is particularly striking or interesting to look at, but I can appreciate that it's a good work of art. It's just not for me. So I choose to read manga instead of looking at the Mona Lisa and complaining that she doesn't look anime-esque enough, whatever that means.
Re: Yu Gi Oh noses
The Yu Gi Oh manga has noses. They're drawn as really small sideways triangles when presented full front though. And the first five or so volumes tend to drop that completely sometimes, especially on Yuugi, I think? So that might be what you're remembering.
edited 6th Aug '11 6:31:51 AM by Anarchy
I'm talking to the whole thread when I say this, but I find that girls love the men looking like men just as much as they like the men looking like Bishies.
@Signed Come on what about every single Black character in Naruto ?
Also I find Chad's design to be really cool and good to look at.
@Anarchy ~eyes explode from the length of his posts~ Calm down bro.
edited 7th Aug '11 12:34:55 AM by Vanitas
The only black character I know in Naruto is that bumble bee guy* or whatever, and I hhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaattted him. I was hoping someone would slice his throat so he could either die or become mute...and then die.
edited 7th Aug '11 12:41:05 AM by Signed
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."You are not interested in actually LISTENING to us, are you?
edited 7th Aug '11 12:59:27 AM by dRoy
Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.This started as a complain thread about an art style. Frankly I'm surprised there was anything more than people talking past one another and a slanging match. I'm shutting this one down: if you want to continue the discussion of anime art styles, start (or find) another thread. If however you want to keep going with the complaints based on personal taste and the personal digs, don't.

That exists everywhere though. Multiracial or monoracial countries. Take america's city folks vs. rednecks.
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."