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[nWoD] Crossing over games

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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#1: Aug 1st 2011 at 12:45:57 PM

I looked, but didn't see a topic for generic nWoD, and only a single post in regards to Genius.

So, at the request of a friend and player, I have been looking at Genius, and flipping through what other nWoD books I can borrow. I'm curious how many people have had campaigns where the various sub-groups interacted, what worked well, what worked badly, and in general advice for the nWoD.

Also, I'm curious how many people have actually played Genius The Transgression - it has its own trope page, but I only saw a single post in regards to Wonders that never got any replies.

I've read through a couple of the core nWoD books; there's a number of cool storylines in the Mysterious Places (I think) and in the Hunter book that could very easily be adapted to any of the sub-groups*

Some lines seem better designed to interact with each other (ie Vampire/Werewolf/Hunter) and some don't seem designed for itneraction (Promethan).

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#2: Aug 1st 2011 at 12:51:06 PM

The thing with Geniuses is that they're what Wizards were in first-edition D&D: Really weak at first, and absolutely insane at the end. (Time-travel, advanced healing, powerful shields, death-rays. . . )

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#3: Aug 2nd 2011 at 5:39:22 AM

[up]

so kind of like mages in that regard. since they similarlyu go from "eh, sorta cool" to "oh god reality just broke"

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#4: Aug 3rd 2011 at 4:12:37 AM

I've never played Mage, but it sounds like the same sort of developmental tract.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#5: Aug 5th 2011 at 7:56:25 AM

On Saturday the Mage campaign I'm running turns 3 years old. While all the P Cs are Mages, I do have a handful of NP Cs that are other kinds of supernaturals. It's worked well so far, since a vampire's blood or a changeling's pledge will seriously freak the Mages out, who are used to seeing everything in their Atlantean mindset. I have tweaked the rules for the other supernaturals, mainly because I really don't want to bother hauling more books to the table to check exactly how a Discipline works.

Now if you want P Cs who are of different templates, that's where it gets tricky. See, most supernaturals have their own missions: Vampires play to be lords, Werewolves patrol the Shadow, Mages are at war with the Exarchs, Sin-Eaters help the dead and Changelings deal with the Fae and the Hedge. Unless the players (or you) can come up with something that they can all work for, it'll be hard to have party cohesion.

This idea of every supernatural playing in a different sandbox is further highlighted by the fact that most supernaturals actually DO play in different areas. Werewolves go to the Shadow, Mages to the Astral Realms, Sin-Eaters to the Underworld and Changelings to the Hedge. And they play in these areas a lot, so a cross-over game is left with either leaving P Cs behind while others tromp on these other realms, or just ignoring these places altogether, which diminishes the experience (come on, a Changeling who doesn't go to the Hedge is losing a lot of what it is).

My suggestion is that if you want to cross-over, make sure that you first start with an idea of what the story's theme and mood will be. Don't make it too sandbox, since you won't be able to count with the background themes and moods that come with playing each game alone. Tell your players, then, that your story will be about monsters needing to band together to defend against a threat to them all, or maybe about five best friends who each became a different monster and how they all cope with their new lives, etc.

With this, then have your players create characters that will work in this situation. If it's a social game, have them go for the Daevas, the Fairests, the Elodoths and the Mastigos (or their counterparts. You CAN play the bumbling bull in a china shop in a social game). If it's a full-out monster mash, have them go for the Gangrels, the Ogres, the Rahus and the Obrimos. And if you want them to have access to some of the extraterrestrial playgrounds, well, Moros and Darklings can traverse the Underworld, or you can just handwave some powerful item that lets them all slip into the Hedge or the Shadow, though some supernaturals might be at a disadvantage.

Mages make the best for crossovers, since their Arcana lets them play with anything. A Thyrsus with werewolves and a Moros with Sin-Eaters will fit in just fine. Vampires will be the more difficult ones, since they sleep for 12 of the 24 hours, leaving other players literally having to wait for one of their party members to join them.

All in all, I recommend you try just running one game at a time, first. That way you get a good idea of the rules, themes and moods of each one, and that'll greatly help in letting you blend them together in a cross-over.

edited 5th Aug '11 7:59:41 AM by Canidaemon

WOOF!
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#6: Aug 5th 2011 at 7:42:50 PM

[up] Thanks. The P Cs will all be Geniuses, but I've been considering using various other supernaturals as opponents/NP Cs. Geniuses have their own pocket realms, but I actually don't want them spending half their time away from the real world.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#7: Aug 6th 2011 at 7:10:43 AM

@Diammones: pretty much. The mage development tract generally goes from level 1: sense, minorly affect the chosen arcana, to 5: absolute and utter control over the chosen arcana.

This gets hilarious because some mage specialties include Fate, Forces (as In all forces. kinetics, fire, electricity, sound waves, light waves, etc), to Life and Death.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#8: Aug 6th 2011 at 7:38:18 AM

Geniuses also work fairly well with anything, until they start breaking the game. They have a couple of their own pocket-dimensions, but most of their work takes place on Earth, and with Skafoi, they could go anywhere without issues.

Some of the Genius abilities:

  • Weapons, starting with basic non-lethal stuff and working up to stuff that makes a Werewolf look like weaksauce
  • Travel, starting with car-like things (IE two-dimensional travel) and ending with TARDISes.
  • Protection; not sure how far this one goes, I assume somewhere insane.
  • The creation of automatons, which can eventually become advanced enough to have a chance of becoming low-level Geniuses themselves

And many more.

edited 6th Aug '11 7:42:15 AM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#9: Aug 6th 2011 at 8:42:35 AM

Yeah. I get the feeling Genuises are honestly a LOT like mages. Just with a different power source and slightly more issues with plausibility. They seme to have similar tendencies for their powers to be blanket areas instead of specific ones, though.

Mage is basically just "pick one of the 10 realms of powers defined, and go have fun breaking reality"

said areas include

Fate (everything from curses, to luck Blessings, ro literally rewriting laws and oaths to suit your needs. highlights include giving yourself 8 again, giving yourself free rerolls, being able to resists all mind or destiny control reflexively with countermagic, writing geasa into existing. Breaking geasa, etc)

Forces (everything from instant disarming of electronic locks, to fireballs, to cellphone reception anywhere, to invisibility and turning a punch into a kinetic knife blow)

Space (as in, the concept of 3d space. Co-location, teleportation, causing a fireball to blink out of your hand and materialize 16 blocks away on top of someone, etc)

Time (acceleration, deceleration, scrying the past of any location, stepping outside of time, being able to review possible outcomes of actions and pick the best possible course, etc)

edited 6th Aug '11 8:52:40 AM by Midgetsnowman

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#10: Aug 6th 2011 at 9:31:01 AM

Sweet.

The sourcebook for Genius actually says that the Peerage sometimes discovers a "Genius" that turns out to be a Mage, and vice-versa. Their powers are noted to be similar in many ways, apart from the Anticlark Corollary (Science is Science; Geniuses can't simply will something to happen, they must construct a device to do things.)

Releveant to the topic:

•Argentum: The Refinement of Silver (Mystery). This unusual Refinement depends on studying and emulating other supernatural creatures in the World of Darkness – these other beings were once human, and so the Argentum-followers believe that by studying the process by which they were transformed into something inhuman, the Promethean might reverse the process.

Well, well. More fuel for the fire.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#11: Aug 7th 2011 at 12:34:40 PM

Yeah. I read the genius sourcerbook some. It seems the only real differences on a wide scope is the power source. That, and how their "spells" breajk upon exposure to normals. Genius stuff explodes violently or goes rogue. paradoxical magic tends to basically erode out of existence.

Though part of me wonders if the Aether that Obrimos Mages draw power from is anything connected to the Divine Light of the Genius.

Similarly, a lot of mages theorize that the other supernatuals are potentially based on fallen corruptions of natural supernal processes.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:35:40 PM by Midgetsnowman

CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#12: Aug 7th 2011 at 2:18:07 PM

[up] Not quite true. If you're lucky, Paradox makes your spell erode out of existence. If you're not lucky, then things tend to end very badly.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#13: Aug 7th 2011 at 5:50:27 PM

That and they have to actually build something; a tool of whatever sort, a device, etc, and use that. They can't just throw Mania at something.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#14: Aug 8th 2011 at 6:17:59 AM

[up] They have to have some kind of technology; a Genius with a stick is pretty dangerous. [lol]

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#15: Aug 8th 2011 at 7:42:37 AM

If I recall, there's bits in the Genius book that talks about how Geniuses (Genii?) and Mages interact with one another.

WOOF!
DrSaering Since: Feb, 2010
#16: Aug 9th 2011 at 12:05:33 AM

You should be careful crossing Genius over with other gamelines. I have especially noticed that access to Wonders can completely upturn Vampire, and probably other settings I am less familiar with.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#17: Aug 9th 2011 at 6:40:12 AM

[up] How so? I mean, Vampires won't cause Havoc by interacting with them, but unless it's a Wonder designed for minimal/no Mania usage, they're not going to get much out of it, either.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#18: Aug 9th 2011 at 9:26:25 AM

I could imagine a mage and a genius working together could priobably invent a scheme for powering wonders off Mana instead of Mania.

Or even a mage figuring out how to convert mana into mania.

edited 9th Aug '11 9:26:53 AM by Midgetsnowman

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#19: Aug 9th 2011 at 10:34:12 AM

Very possible. Mages with Spirit can convert Essence to Mana and those with Fate can convert Glamour into Mana. Note that it's always at a two-for-one basis.

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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#20: Aug 9th 2011 at 3:32:35 PM

[up][up] That's actually one of the Merits, to be able to take [insert other supernatural power source] and turn it into Mania. But that, of course, requires the other person to be willing to donate it ...

What about Prometheans? Or Geists? I think I have a good handle on how to handle vampires, hunters, and the miscellaneous stuff from the core books. Probably werewolves too, though I won't until I have a chance to look at the book.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#21: Aug 9th 2011 at 3:58:19 PM

Some random Promethean-vs-Genius ideas:

  • One is caught on camera healing with electricity and showed on the news. If the Geniuses are doing their jobs, attitudes should range from "Awesome, let's go delve into some weird shit" to "Crap, someone will try and investigate this and we'll have more labs to feed" to "Wait...hope I didn't do this."
  • One of the Illuminated tests his lightning cannon on a crowd while the PC's rush to stop him and suddenly one of the "targets" turns into Frankenstein and starts beating the crap out of him.
  • While cleaning out an abandoned lab, they find a maddened Promethean sealed in a coffin-like chamber in the basement, and it assumes they're responsible for chaining it in there, leading to the PC's being stalked through a shadowy laboratory complex by a nigh-unstoppable monster. Especially since the aesthetic of its builder was inclined towards "Lightning everywhere!"

I hasten to add that I've never run or played WOD before, so these might well be terrible.

edited 9th Aug '11 4:07:42 PM by CountDorku

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#22: Aug 9th 2011 at 8:26:40 PM

Thing is, with energy conversion, a Genius can turn Vitae into Mania, but she can't give the Mania to the Vampire that she got the Vitae from. Thus, Vampires can't do shit with Wonders. (Replace "Vampire" with anything.)

One question, do Hunters trigger Havoc or Paradox?

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#23: Aug 9th 2011 at 10:50:33 PM

Yes. Remember, Paradox is caused by the shard of the abyss in all mortals, so hunters (being mere mortals) still qualify. Havoc would probably apply as well, especially for members of Null Mysteriis.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#24: Aug 12th 2011 at 7:43:57 AM

From my flip through their core book, Hunters seemed designed to resist the effects of the supernatural on them, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't cause Havoc or Paradox, short of giving up being a hunter for being a Beholden/Acolyte.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#25: Aug 12th 2011 at 12:20:47 PM

If it's just NP Cs as other supernaturals, I say you wing it. Read up on the culture and themes of each supernatural and briefly skim through what they do. All their magical powers/contracts/disciplines you can just adapt them to what you think would be best for a Genius game.

The technique I've used is basically keeping an idea of what each power does (Animalism is about animals, Forces is about doing stuff with energy) and roll the supernatural's Power Trait (gnosis, primal urge, etc.) plus either the dots in their power or some attribute. How much of a punch they pack you can scale up or down as you desire to match with the Genius' power levels.

Keep it simple but keep it consistent.

WOOF!

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