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Clean-up for the Stock Japanese Characters index: Stock Japanese Characters

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#251: Aug 19th 2011 at 11:16:49 AM

Remove seconded.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#252: Aug 19th 2011 at 11:57:12 AM

It's not Japan centric, but is it of Japanese origin? I don't recall seeing it much as a kid (which would be prior to the introduction of anime to the US.)

Or are we simply including any time that someone has an animal on their head, in their hat or hidden under their hat?

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#253: Aug 19th 2011 at 2:32:29 PM

I actually saw it first in old British works. I know Pratchett used it and he doesn't seem to have much truck with Asian culture. I don't think it's Japanese. I think it's just not American if that makes sense.

edited 19th Aug '11 2:32:51 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#254: Aug 19th 2011 at 2:42:52 PM

I'm thinking that there were lots of shoulder pets, but all the cases of animal on the head, it's either being concealed under a hat for some reason, or the person either doesn't know or doesn't want it there.

Ok, reading the page again, both the "doesn't know it's there", and "doesn't want it there" versions are included. That means it's not Japanese-origin.

I vote Remove.

edited 19th Aug '11 2:45:01 PM by Madrugada

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#255: Aug 19th 2011 at 7:05:30 PM

Its really a camera shot trope he has to stay up there for it to be in view of the camera for head shots.

Ones that carry a conversation as a Head Pet though might be a bit different though.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#256: Aug 20th 2011 at 9:55:10 AM

Ok, reading the page again, both the "doesn't know it's there", and "doesn't want it there" versions are included. That means it's not Japanese-origin.

That was my interpretation as well.

Head Pet has been Removed.

Up next is Huge Schoolgirl:

Japanese Examples: 50
Non-Japanese Examples: 33
The description does not indicate Japanese origin, and only one paragraphs mentions a specific height cutoff that is used in Japan but is not a requirement for the trope in general. Many of the examples fit the main gist of the trope, which is "Taller than her peers and awkward about it."

With that said, I'm going to go ahead and say Motion to Remove Huge Schoolgirl.

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Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#257: Aug 20th 2011 at 10:08:31 AM

That one is messy it's really handled differently and with different personality types associated with Japanese Huge Schoolgirl as most Japanese examples fall under Tall, Dark and Bishōjo type and other things in addition to the Difference in how tall they can be. (which seems to be a small point of misuse as other examples seem to use the 170 mark and are not Japanese.)

I really wouldn't mind splitting but that probably wouldn't fly. Say just keep on both really.

Tropes always have problems with Sizes Statuesque Stunner has the same issue with the "170" thing.

edited 20th Aug '11 10:28:02 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
peccantis Since: Oct, 2010
#258: Aug 21st 2011 at 2:08:42 PM

It seems like it should be Japan-centric, although the description could be better. It does mention:

  • Japanese favouring small, cute women
  • and Western cultures favouring tall women

Western examples seem to combine awkward tallness into a wider set of Ugly Duckling characteristics (lankiness, mousiness, dowdyness, thick glasses etc), while the Japanese examples tend to be pretty and boobed. These would be two different tropes, but further exploring would be needed to determine whether the "pretty + boobed + tall = awkward schoolgirl doomed to be unattractive" thing is more Japanese than not...

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#259: Aug 21st 2011 at 10:51:26 PM

I'm agreeing with peccantis. It might be possible that there's other cultures that strongly favor women being short, but I don't know of them.

Fight smart, not fair.
peccantis Since: Oct, 2010
#260: Aug 21st 2011 at 11:10:35 PM

Victorian English + related eras of Western world from Baroque to the eve of the 20s? Then again, they're hardly relevant for a trope about schoolgirls...

edited 21st Aug '11 11:12:03 PM by peccantis

Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#261: Aug 22nd 2011 at 5:14:40 AM

Nobody can tell me the idea of a schoolgirl who is bigger much than avarage and has low self esteem because of that is Japanese only.

Yes, when it comes to models there is the ideal of them being tall. But every model, who tries to generate a "nice girl" image tells the sob story of how she felt ugly in school because ehe was taller then everybody else.

I meet the tall awkward schoolgirl in real life and encountered them in media and there was often no connection to Japan.

Of course the cut off point between normal and to tall differs between cultures, and the smaller avarage hight in japan than in most western countries leads to a lower "to high" limit.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#262: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:35:56 AM

[up] True, the pretty and boobed thing shows up in Western media too, and generally because they were the first ones to hit puberty. Which makes them shunned by their classmates for being different.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#263: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:40:50 AM

While in Japan these are treated as maybe big and imposing however usually very calm or Aloof Tall, Dark and Bishōjo or Kuudere (Rarely Tsundere) and will almost always have straight long dark hair.

Very prone to having a Kaorin style Fangirl.

edited 22nd Aug '11 12:47:58 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#264: Aug 23rd 2011 at 5:44:08 AM

I would argue that if the description is particularly Japanese centric, it is incorrect and should be changed. The western examples show that being awkward about being a taller than average schoolgirl is something that happens in multiple cultures.

But the only really Japanese centric thing is the specific height cutoff, which is really unnecessary for the trope as a whole.

edited 23rd Aug '11 5:45:29 AM by Meeble

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#265: Aug 23rd 2011 at 1:55:10 PM

A lot of the non-anime examples seem to edge into either "manliness" or only mention height, rather than any other aspect. I'm not sure how many of those examples are good. For example She Hulk is mentioned, which I don't think is accurate.

Fight smart, not fair.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#266: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:27:19 AM

Just an FYI to everyone participating in this effort:

I will not have the opportunity to regularly check this thread over the next week or two due to my RL schedule. If anyone would like to take over calling the motions and updating the Sandbox in the meantime, feel free. Otherwise I will pick it back up once my schedule permits.

I want to thank everyone who has participated thus far. Your help has been greatly appreciated.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#267: Aug 25th 2011 at 1:26:00 PM

I'll try to stop by once a day.

So, Huge School Girl. What are the aspects of it that would make it Japan specific?

Fight smart, not fair.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#268: Aug 25th 2011 at 1:59:09 PM

AFAIK, a Huge Schoolgirl in anime/manga (excluding blatant case of Parodied Trope) tends to be always cute/attractive once you get past the intimidation factor of her unusual height, typically in spite of what she (or in-universe detractors) thinks of herself. Don't know about Western Huge Schoolgirl, however.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#269: Aug 26th 2011 at 12:27:58 AM

I skimmed the western examples, and it seemed that most of the "unattractiveness" comes from being intimidated, rather than the height itself being considered unattractive. Did I get it wrong?

Fight smart, not fair.
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#270: Aug 26th 2011 at 12:56:52 AM

[up]

I think that we may be dealing with two separate tropes here.

One is a girl who is considered unattractive by others due to her height, while the other is a girl who considers herself unattractive due to her height.

The anime/manga version of this is almost universally the second version, and quite frequently the girl in question is found to be absolutely stunning by most other characters, but they are convinced that they aren't small enough/cute enough/whatever, and that people are just trying to make them feel better.

I don't know if this is a specifically Japan vs. Western divide, but its definitely two distinct concepts.

Also, we need to make sure that the examples actually involve schoolgirls, because in the Japanese case, this is essentially 100% confined to middle/high school girls (I can think of three that fit this precisely, right off the top of my head without even checking an example list)

Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#271: Aug 26th 2011 at 2:14:22 AM

[up] Even if there are two different tropes in one, non of these two is Japanese only.

Motion to move Huge Schoolgirl to remove section.

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#272: Aug 26th 2011 at 2:38:52 AM

[up]

Hold on, we haven't established that yet.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#273: Aug 26th 2011 at 3:48:41 AM

Type two is almost a Statuesque Stunner usually with long black hair and big boobs (sometimes hidden via Sarashi) and are probably athletic. High chance of getting an Even Girls Want Her Fangirl or worse partnered with someone with A-Cup Angst (or Two of them) or a shorty.

Anyway Can we just come back to this one later and move on? We can bicker about One trope some other time.

edited 26th Aug '11 4:04:28 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#274: Aug 26th 2011 at 4:02:57 AM

[up][up] We discussed long enough, and there was not one single convincing argument, why this trope should be Japanese only and when the last not disproved keep argument is "In Japan the Huge Schoolgirl often has black hair" then the point is reached, when I think that ther is no real argument in favour of the Japanese only side.

So I came to the conclusion, that it belongs to the remove section, and we should move on to the next. If you belive that Huge Schoolgirl is a Japanese only trope then you can vote on moving it to the keep section. If you think it needs a visit to the TRS open a thread and move it to the "In TRS" category. There is no need to keep this discussion going on forever.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#275: Aug 26th 2011 at 4:07:11 AM

That's really rude there... Just toss it at the bottom of the list and come back to it at the end we have enough TRS threads ATM for this let's finish those up first. (they are all dead now too.)

edited 26th Aug '11 4:08:20 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Total posts: 505
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