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Western creators are doomed.

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FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#1: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:18:22 AM

I always loved western animation and I still love it.

But after looking at the careers of my heroes like Greg Weismann or Warburton. I can't help but think that they are screwed.

For starters they don't have any ownership of their creations. Want your concept animated then sell your dream concept!, then sell your dreams to the company!!!... And that's if you are lucky enough for them to buy it.

It's just sad looking at Greg Weisman not beong able to work on his passion gargoylesor or Lauren Faust being unable to animate her dream project The Milky Way and the Galaxy girls.

They don't have any control of their works when Executive Meddling or the Moral Guardians are around. They can't create the quality with the storyliness they want. In fact some of them like Greg Weismann feel bad when others take control of their characters and/or derail their creations of resulting in Franchise Zombies.

And ultimately most profits are for the company instead of the creators. Compare Harry Potter JK Rowling was very lucky and a billionaire to phineas and ferb creators or Sponge Bob. As reported by Cartoon Brew guys in suits get rich with their ideas, some like Greg Weisman are just happy of being employed at all.

This makes The God Does Not Own This World the more saddening.I wish there was more investment for western creators. It's depressing seeing genius minds being unable to develop their ideas for money issues.

I wish Weatern animation had more investment and creative freedom.

Tl;Dr? Basically creators need to almost make a Deal with the Devil to create something

edited 27th Jul '11 11:23:25 AM by FallenLegend

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#2: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:34:36 AM

Nothing new about any of this, see the creators of Batman, Superman and numerous others.

eX 94. Grandmaster of Shark Since: Jan, 2001
94. Grandmaster of Shark
#3: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:52:15 AM

...

And what's specific western about this? It's the way the entertainment industry works worldwide. And it never has been different for anything but books, because anything else requires serious resources to produce.

edited 27th Jul '11 11:53:09 AM by eX

FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#4: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:56:17 AM

I could think on some examples... But western seem the most affected.

Cough*Uwe boll*cough.

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
Theoriginalblader Sloving cases one by one from Downtown Since: Feb, 2011
Sloving cases one by one
#5: Jul 27th 2011 at 12:10:58 PM

If I may, I would also add these people to the list who have been screwed. John K, Ralph Bakshi, Joe Murray, Milton Knight, Genndy Tarvoksy, Bruce Timm hell the list could go ON. Most studios these days are run by executives who don't see the goodness on what animation can do. And they give in to the Moral Guardians because they are too scared to take risks(even if the certain thing is small, they still wont take a risk).

Its best that the western cartoonists should just go work for the indie animation field, or at least open up their own studio where they can call the shots over these brainless executives. I've seen a lot of good talent wasted because of the dumb choices from the western executives. Hell a good example of this are the pilots of Korgoth and Plasticman. What gets picked up over these works of art? Shit that nobody wants to look at.

edited 27th Jul '11 12:11:21 PM by Theoriginalblader

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#6: Jul 27th 2011 at 12:12:02 PM

Now you know why Ralph Bighead hated being popular.

ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#7: Jul 27th 2011 at 12:12:45 PM

I honestly feel a movement towards independently produced works may be the best trend to go for.

Theoriginalblader Sloving cases one by one from Downtown Since: Feb, 2011
Sloving cases one by one
#8: Jul 27th 2011 at 12:24:15 PM

[up]Indie is the only way to go if you dont want to deal with the stupidity from both Moral Guardians and Executive Meddling happening 24/7. Get a good PC capable for animation work, buy Toon Boom studio(I dont care which verison of it), listen to Ralph Bakshi's amazing speech from the comic con, and make something out of yourself.

kyun Since: Dec, 2010
#9: Jul 27th 2011 at 1:23:37 PM

Artists will be doomed if people like this keep calling the shots.

Pannic Since: Jul, 2009
#10: Jul 27th 2011 at 1:33:36 PM

John K kinda brought it all upon himself.

nomuru2d Gamer-turning-maker from Port Saint Lucie, FL Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Gamer-turning-maker
#11: Jul 27th 2011 at 5:12:03 PM

... FL, you DO know that Weismann's been working on the Gargoyles comics, right?

edited 27th Jul '11 5:12:25 PM by nomuru2d

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#12: Jul 27th 2011 at 5:18:19 PM

That was cancelled when Disney upped the license fee.

Viergacht Viergacht Since: Dec, 2009
Viergacht
#13: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:26:49 PM

Why just Western creators? You think they have it any better in the everloving Japan? Hah.

Theoriginalblader Sloving cases one by one from Downtown Since: Feb, 2011
Sloving cases one by one
#14: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:27:50 PM

[up]Has Executive Meddling even happened in Japan?

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#15: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:28:24 PM

Erm, this isn't something special to Western Animation.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#16: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:34:46 PM

[up][up] All the freaking time. Japanese are very submissive to authority figures, so if anything, the suits own their employees even worse there.

Theoriginalblader Sloving cases one by one from Downtown Since: Feb, 2011
Sloving cases one by one
#17: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:35:48 PM

[up]Good lord. It sounds like hell down there in Japan.

ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#18: Jul 27th 2011 at 7:37:39 PM

Animation sucks everywhere, that's common knowledge. We're talking about how to make it better here.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#19: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:09:28 PM

Those folks don't have creative control over their cartoons because they can't actually make a cartoon by themselves. It takes lots and lots of people to make a decently-animated half-hour cartoon, which in turn requires lots and lots of money. So, unless a cartoon's creator is independently wealthy, they're gonna need investors, and when you invest in something you buy some control over it.

That's just how business works. If you want creative control, you've gotta stick to only making what you and a handful of employees and/or friends can do using the money in your bank account.

edited 28th Jul '11 1:04:34 AM by RavenWilder

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#20: Jul 27th 2011 at 11:20:11 PM

[up]That. That's where John K. fails to understand. Good cartoons require more than just being able to draw.

MoeDantes cuter, cuddlier Edmond from the Land of Classics Since: Nov, 2010
cuter, cuddlier Edmond
#21: Jul 28th 2011 at 4:21:24 AM

Has Executive Meddling even happened in Japan?

Yes it has, but the degrees to which are far more varied than other posters would have you believe. Some authors do whatever their editors tell them, others just ride trends, and still others do whatever they want. And it ALL gets published.

Not like here, where your cartoon has to be either a superhero or some crap throwback to Looney Tunes to get the time of day.

Japanese are very submissive to authority figures

That's a common cultural stereotype, but I've yet to see evidence its any worse than our own "if you so much as want to look at someone cross-eyed you have to have written permission from the mayor" culture.

edited 28th Jul '11 4:24:01 AM by MoeDantes

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#22: Jul 28th 2011 at 4:51:11 AM

Create a computer program that allows for more effective one man animation teams. This lowers the startup cost of animation, and reduces the need to hire people to fill in the gaps. Most problems can be solved by removing the human factor this way.

Fight smart, not fair.
Neuman Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Jul 28th 2011 at 8:50:14 AM

And then you're a hack for using Flash.

Anyway, you can hardly call creators "doomed", this has been going on since the beginning of animation. Walt Disney lost Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, then solved the problem by founding his own company.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Jul 28th 2011 at 2:24:31 PM

The more money that's involved the more the people who have the money get involved. The bigger the project the more meddling occurs. That's why a lot of other countries get more creative freedom because their projects rarely get the same degree of financing. Entire studios have lived and died on one project in Hollywood.

The average regularly employed writer, producer, director or actor makes about as any other professional career like computer programming or construction management. The only time they get serious money is by getting successful projects and being able to argue for a bigger salary, like it or not but "critically acclaimed" does absolutely jack when it comes to a paycheck. Hell, even "popular" doesn't equate to pay raises (Power Rangers actors barely get anything for working upwards of 70 hour weeks).

If you are able to get a very juicy contract that guarantees a good percentage of the royalties/box office gross then you are doing well. George Lucas made nearly all of his money on the merchandizing rights for Star Wars, since the studio didn't have any faith in it.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#25: Jul 28th 2011 at 2:43:19 PM

Don Bluth managed to carve out a good decade before An American Tail and after leaving Disney without all that much Meddling at all


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