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Input Needed: Reducing the Trope Repair Shop Backlog

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captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#476: Nov 21st 2011 at 6:45:18 AM

Any mentioning of ways we could prevent pages from need a TRS thread in the first place?

LiberatedLiberater 奇跡の魔女 from [DATA EXPUNGED] Since: Jun, 2011
奇跡の魔女
#477: Nov 21st 2011 at 6:49:20 AM

IIRC, there was also talk of crowners being implemented in the YKTTW so that names could be decided on easily over there. In fact, if we're talking about prevention, the YKTTW would probably be the best place to start.

MAL || vndb || Blog
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#478: Nov 21st 2011 at 9:34:10 AM

Witch of Truth I believe I saw the suggestion that clocked threads should lock automatically if the timer runs out. If this gets implemented, I'd like to add a suggestion for a "Show Clocked Threads Only" button so people can easily tell which discussions are stalling.
I'd go along with this; it's a little annoying to have to search the pages to find older clocked threads when they could be sorted in the same way that the crowners and asterisked threads are.

Now, as far as clocked threads automatically expiring, I say no way. Not only do clocked threads sometimes generate enough discussion to need to be extended past the 3-day window, there's also the chance of someone accidentally clicking that button instead of another on the toolbar...goodness knows I've done that before when trying to hook crowners.

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#479: Nov 21st 2011 at 10:33:09 AM

Naming crowners in YKTTW and sorting clocked threads on TRS would both be good.

Would it be helpful and/or possible to require YKTTW before launching a new trope that isn't a split or redirect? That could also prevent tropes showing up in TRS.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#480: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:06:24 AM

The clock can be extended if the thread comes back to life. That's already possible, and there's no reason to remove that ability. And the admins can de-clock a thread that was clocked by accident.

But a deadline only works if it has some teeth to it. Making it so that the clock running out automatically locks the thread gives the clock some teeth.

edited 21st Nov '11 11:07:03 AM by Madrugada

jewelleddragon Also known as Katz from Pasadena, CA Since: Apr, 2009
Also known as Katz
#481: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:17:17 AM

Isn't there a danger that limiting the number of threads will lead to people just "fixing" pages as they see fit without opening a thread for it?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#482: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:41:57 AM

If we push the limit on open threads too low, yes, I think that will become a distinct danger. We banned one editor in the past because he deemed TRS "too clunky" and opted to instead make major changes, including splits, merges, and major re-definitions without discussion.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#483: Nov 21st 2011 at 12:11:32 PM

I think the name crowner for YKTTW is a good idea. We could also give a small group of curators a launch blocker until the name/description gets changed if it is enough of a problem or the user is stubborn. The ability to add subpages automagically would be nice, as well as a general improvement to launches.

Fight smart, not fair.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#484: Nov 21st 2011 at 12:27:29 PM

If the threads were set to auto-lock, I'd want them to automatically insert some kind of text like the Expiry Bot used to do. For IP, what I normally put in when I lock an unresolved thread is "Clock's up; locking for inactivity/lack of consensus. No further* action is to be taken based on this thread." The * is there because I don't use the "further" if the old pic doesn't get pulled.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#485: Nov 21st 2011 at 4:05:22 PM

That would be the sort of autolock text I'd like as well.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#486: Nov 21st 2011 at 8:17:17 PM

Hm, I've seen a few too many active threads with expired clocks to trust an auto-lock system.

That said I don't really see the point of clocks in the first place. Either the thread is active, in which case they don't help, or it's died out, in which case it can be locked without a timer. Clocks don't seem to work for getting people to hurry up.

edited 21st Nov '11 9:20:02 PM by Spark9

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#487: Nov 21st 2011 at 9:06:52 PM

Crowners aren't clocks.

The clock is a three-day timer; the original purpose was to use it as a goad to get stalled or deadlocked threads moving again, in a "move it or lose it" way — once the thread is clocked, it had three days to start to show some progress or it was declared dead and locked for lack of action/consensus. The autolocker was disabled after it ran amuck. Which means that unless a mod notices an expired clock, the thread stays open even though the clock has run out.

I'm proposing figuring out what went haywire with the autolock feature and restoring it so that the clock has some teeth again.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#488: Nov 21st 2011 at 9:20:20 PM

I meant to type "clocks", oops.

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#489: Nov 21st 2011 at 9:22:38 PM

Instead of automatically locking, can it automatically holler?

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#490: Nov 21st 2011 at 10:12:19 PM

Interesting. So, it would automatically send a holler with "This thread was clocked on [date], if it has not moved, lock it please."?

Fight smart, not fair.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#492: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:00:45 PM

On the same note, how about an automatic holler for crowners that have been running for X days and have a clear outcome?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#493: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:26:50 PM

That would be a bastard to code. It would have to track days open, days since the last option was added, and have some sort of an algorithm to determine what constitutes "a clear outcome".

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#494: Nov 21st 2011 at 11:31:33 PM

I don't think it's hard.

For example, if it's a single-prop crowner, and it has been running for at least 14 days, and it's either 2:1 or higher, or 1:1 or lower, then that's a clear outcome.

billybobfred Cosine! from renamed to wingedcatgirl Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#495: Nov 23rd 2011 at 11:41:32 AM

That's all well and good for single-prop crowners.

What about the other, more complicated kinds?

she her hers hOI!!! i'm tempe
Osmium from Germany Since: Dec, 2010
#496: Nov 23rd 2011 at 11:50:14 AM

Why not simply sending a holler 14 days after the last option was added? Checking the results is a matter of seconds and the mods can decide to call the crowner or to bump it for more votes (and clock it). This sounds like a way more simple methode. And I don't think that there are so many crowners opend a day, that this will take to much of the mods time.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#497: Nov 23rd 2011 at 1:35:09 PM

[up][up] We don't need a clear "resolution mechanic" for every single thread. If we can just automate the more common ones, that's be helpful already.

Aside from that, I feel it would be useful on TRS to display the "star" threads first (i.e. those with a clear outcome and the star icon). These are the threads that need no more debate, but just need the work to be done; and it's a good sign to get those over with before starting more debate.

NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#498: Nov 27th 2011 at 5:41:44 PM

Do we actually have a page that explains 'when to TRS' and 'when to just fix it yourself'? A lot of the problems I've had with TRS threads I've opened was lack of input. I know what I thought should be done to it, but I wasn't sure how much initiative I could take to act on that without feedback, especially when no one seemed to care one way or another. I'm not certain how to fix that problem, though.

I know lately there are a bunch of things I've seen that I've wanted to put on TRS but couldn't because it was locked due to too many TRS threads, and later forgot about it. I don't think the cap is a good idea. It is really frustrating for someone who wants to get a problem fixed, but can't without taking possibly thump-worthy initiative.

This is technically not really a TRS issue, but there are TONS AND TONS of pages in YKTTW being launched without actually posting anything on the page. People posting other people's tropes (mine which pisses me off. If you are going to prematurely launch one of my tropes at least post it and wick it properly, don't kill it like that!) that way and basically killing the thing stone-dead because they weren't doing it properly and the person who was responsible for it didn't know it was done and therefore can't fix it properly or even realize it happened, especially if they had more than one YKTTW going. My memory niggles at me all the time, I keep seeing tropes through TRS that are of things that were actually brought up there before and even launched, way back when, but they just were not posted properly on the page created.

Though in all honesty I haven't seen too many truly badly done pages come out of YKTTW lately. I don't think that is too much of a problem anymore, except for that issue I mentioned. A lot of the TRS issues I see brought up now are for things that have trope decay, need a split, or have issues that pre-date YKTTW, like Nakama and The Libby, where their issues are adhering to new policies.

edited 27th Nov '11 5:44:33 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#499: Nov 27th 2011 at 8:37:54 PM

Do we actually have a page that explains 'when to TRS' and 'when to just fix it yourself'? A lot of the problems I've had with TRS threads I've opened was lack of input. I know what I thought should be done to it, but I wasn't sure how much initiative I could take to act on that without feedback, especially when no one seemed to care one way or another. I'm not certain how to fix that problem, though.

I support this idea. I feel very uncomfortable making large changes without consensus, and I never know when any given change is large enough to count.

troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#500: Nov 27th 2011 at 8:54:34 PM

[up][up] Note that you can ping a mod to unlaunch a YKTTW if that happens.


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