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Aleksei Since: May, 2010
#1: Jul 22nd 2011 at 9:43:41 AM

It annoys me sometimes how music gets piled up by rock journalists into sub-genres that don't exist, and cover such a ridiculously broad range of sounds as to make the terms meaningless. Some examples herein:

Alternative - A catch-all name for pretty much any kind of rock that sounds "different" somehow — covering genres such as punk, pop-punk, grunge, post-grunge, funk rock... seriously, can any of ya'll tell me what Red Hot Chili Peppers, Blink-182, and Three Days Grace have in common? I mean, two of those are good (and I do like some pop-punk), but still.

Indie - Slightly more consistent, but even more hilarious because it's a sub-non-genre of a non-genre (Alternative). mostly consists of post-punk (Placebo and the like), emo, and garage rock (The Killers, Yeah Yeah Yeahs...).

Rock en Español - Most Egregious example I can think of this, and a bit of a sore spot for me because 1) it covers music with clearly glaringly different sounds, 2) It's not even based on any musical characteristics, beyond language/place of origin, and 3) there aren't even any official subgenres under that, which implies that Hispanic rock music isn't important enough to even precisely classify. Which I find vaguely offensive. Mostly consists of salsa rock (Fiel a la Vega, Jarabe de Palo, Juanes), reggae-rock (Maná), and Latin folk rock (Elefantes), with some "purer" sub-genres such as post-grunge (Niño Planeta, Black Guayaba), or power pop (Los Auténticos Decadentes).

edited 22nd Jul '11 9:53:21 AM by Aleksei

MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#2: Jul 22nd 2011 at 10:32:30 AM

Yes, that is something I've been feeling for a while.

I would also add Christian Rock to the list of genres that aren't really genres. The only thing that the Trees Community, Daniel Amos, and Joy Electric have in common are the lyrical themes. And even that's completely inconsistent, because a band can embrace the Christian Rock label and hardly ever mention their beliefs in their lyrics (see: Starflyer 59), while bands that do mention their beliefs in their lyrics may insist that the label still doesn't apply to them (see: Danielson Famile), or just never get the label applied to them at all because the references fly over the audience's head (see: U2).

edited 22nd Jul '11 10:32:59 AM by MetaFour

Aleksei Since: May, 2010
#3: Jul 22nd 2011 at 10:59:27 AM

[up] Fuck yeah, Christian rock is totally a fake genre.

CinemaZebra from The Texas Panhandle Since: May, 2011
#4: Jul 22nd 2011 at 12:48:23 PM

Hip Hop has it worse. I have yet to see any major differences between Abstract Hip Hop, Experimental Hip Hop, Conscious Hip Hop, etc. Political Hip Hop is one of the most ridiculous in that, similar to Christian Rock, the only reason it has a name is because of the lyrical content rather than the music itself.

And the use of locations is even more baffling. West Coast, East Coast, and Southern are frequently considered to be different GENRES of Hip Hop.

"My brain used to be a little bitch, so I mugged it's ass." -kegisak
SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here Since: Jan, 2010
Laugh it off, everybody
#5: Jul 22nd 2011 at 12:53:48 PM

Congratulations, you've noticed music critics are full of bullshit.

^Given that it's a genre of music almost entirely defined by the lyrics, sans certain cases, it actually makes a lot of sense to categorize by lyrical content. The East Coast, West Coast, and Southern thing is used as shorthands for Boom Bap, Gangsta Rap in the vein of NWA, and Crunk/Snap respectively, in general.

edited 22nd Jul '11 12:55:31 PM by SpainSun

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
BoundByTheMoon Kvltvre Vvltvre from The Spanish Sahara Since: Jun, 2010
Kvltvre Vvltvre
#6: Jul 22nd 2011 at 12:59:07 PM

Metal is a mess, but at least the major subgenres make sense, and sound noticeably different. But then there are sub-subgenres. Even worse, every band that's "sick of being labeled" (in other words, every band) gets to invent their own "style", like Omnium Gatherum's "life-and-death metal" (which is pretty clever) or Wintersun's "extreme majestic epic technical melodic death metal" or whatever it is. Very few bands actually invent a new style (ie Meshuggah), and so 99.99% of the time, there's already a label that works fine- like melodic death metal for Omnium Gatherum, or melodic black metal for Wintersun.

And don't get me started on all the bands that call themselves "epic metal".

There are snakes in the grass, so we'd better go hunting!
Bananaquit Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Jul 22nd 2011 at 1:07:30 PM

The first time I heard lots of complaints of “this is not a real genre” was probably freakbeat.

Not to mention Rock in Opposition, which refers to a specific collective of bands (à la Elephant 6) but which gets mistakenly applied genre status, usually aimed at any left-of-center progressive band (e.g.: Can) with zero ties to the RIO movement.

dxman Since: Oct, 2009
#9: Jul 22nd 2011 at 2:12:59 PM

"Classic rock" is a nonexistent genre. Can anyone tell me what Ozzy Osbourne and Kenny Loggins (for example) actually have in common?

...
Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#10: Jul 22nd 2011 at 2:16:55 PM

[up]Then what do you call it?

And Ozzy osbourne isn't classic rock, it belongs to another genre that escapes me.

edited 22nd Jul '11 2:17:18 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Aleksei Since: May, 2010
#11: Jul 22nd 2011 at 2:22:21 PM

[up] Ozzy's one of the founders of heavy metal.

Classic rock is basically "anything that old people listen to and/or was written before the 80s."

edited 22nd Jul '11 2:23:12 PM by Aleksei

BoundByTheMoon Kvltvre Vvltvre from The Spanish Sahara Since: Jun, 2010
Kvltvre Vvltvre
#12: Jul 22nd 2011 at 2:25:17 PM

[up][up]"Old-people music". Is that vague enough for you?

There are snakes in the grass, so we'd better go hunting!
dxman Since: Oct, 2009
#13: Jul 22nd 2011 at 2:27:52 PM

Classic rock is basically "anything that old people listen to and/or was written before the 80s."

Exactly why classic rock is a non-genre.

...
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#14: Jul 22nd 2011 at 3:32:03 PM

Alternative rock, at least since the mid-1970s, isn't a non-existent genre. Sure, it's a broad label, but it's sufficiently different from classic rock and metal for a distinction to be made, and most of it does display some influence from punk rock or punk-influenced rock, which is the connection.

Besides, genres are never, or almost never, strictly defined. By that reckoning, I think you could construct an argument that every genre is a "non-genre".

edited 22nd Jul '11 3:34:40 PM by BobbyG

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ImipolexG frozen in time from all our yesterdays Since: Jan, 2001
frozen in time
#15: Jul 22nd 2011 at 3:37:13 PM

I don't think anyone really uses "classic rock" as a genre. Or at least they shouldn't. The bands typically called classic rock actually fall into a lot of different styles (blues-rock, psychedelia, glam rock, folk rock, progressive rock, etc.) "Classic rock" is more of a radio station format ("we play songs that the older folks like to hear" more or less).

no one will notice that I changed this
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#16: Jul 22nd 2011 at 3:39:56 PM

I say "classic rock" if I want to mean old, good rock music, regardless of genre.

Nevertheless, there are stylistic trends that can be observed in many classic rock compositions, as a natural consequence of musicians influencing one another.

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inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#17: Jul 22nd 2011 at 4:26:47 PM

a genre of music almost entirely defined by the lyrics

ThisIsWhyHipHopConfusesMe.jpg

Also, Stupid Genres: Hardcore Techno, more specifically Speedcore, Splittercore & Extratone.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE BPM!!!!!

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Bananaquit Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Jul 22nd 2011 at 4:56:27 PM

I don't think anyone really uses "classic rock" as a genre. Or at least they shouldn't. The bands typically called classic rock actually fall into a lot of different styles (blues-rock, psychedelia, glam rock, folk rock, progressive rock, etc.) "Classic rock" is more of a radio station format ("we play songs that the older folks like to hear" more or less).

They call it “classic rock” because that sounds better than “oldies.” Baby boomers don’t like being reminded that they are now old. But yeah, not a genre, just a catchall for “stuff older than 1985 that would have been played on album rock radio.”

edited 22nd Jul '11 4:57:21 PM by Bananaquit

BoundByTheMoon Kvltvre Vvltvre from The Spanish Sahara Since: Jun, 2010
Kvltvre Vvltvre
#19: Jul 22nd 2011 at 6:25:33 PM

Also, Stupid Genres: Hardcore Techno, more specifically Speedcore, Splittercore & Extratone.
That confused me at first, then I... still don't know what the point is. So if I take a splittercore song and speed it up to 2x speed in Audacity, that changes the genre? Damn, I'm going to start a respectable career doing remixes!

There are snakes in the grass, so we'd better go hunting!
Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#20: Jul 22nd 2011 at 6:29:42 PM

Hey, not just old folks like classic rock!

But I have a disdain for blues rock.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Aleksei Since: May, 2010
#21: Jul 22nd 2011 at 8:36:39 PM

"Alternative rock, at least since the mid-1970s, isn't a non-existent genre. Sure, it's a broad label, but it's sufficiently different from classic rock and metal for a distinction to be made, and most of it does display some influence from punk rock or punk-influenced rock, which is the connection."

Yes, it's a genre. A genre defined by being written after the 80s, and being neither metal nor punk rock (or rather just not being metal, given that it now bloody includes pop-punk). Perfect classification.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#22: Jul 22nd 2011 at 9:39:26 PM

That's not what I said.

It sounds different from earlier rock genres. Not always massively, but the difference is often audibly there. And that's the punk influence.

Genres are basically never perfect classifications, anyway. There's too much stylistic fusion and creative variation for them to be perfect.

edited 22nd Jul '11 9:44:04 PM by BobbyG

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SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here Since: Jan, 2010
Laugh it off, everybody
#23: Jul 22nd 2011 at 10:20:43 PM

Here's my problem with statements like this, you cannot have it both ways.

Either genre classification is complete bullshit and you're a "music is music" guy, or, it has some merit and you can mull over what goes where. You cannot say that some genres "aren't actually genres" it doesn't make sense, it's like saying lavender isn't actually a color because it's indistinguishable from purple. If I want to call a group of bands post-beard broccoli punk, and they have some common tie between them, then by god, I'm going to do it.

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
Aleksei Since: May, 2010
#24: Jul 22nd 2011 at 11:31:15 PM

"It sounds different from earlier rock genres. Not always massively, but the difference is often audibly there."

The problem's not the difference — it's the similarities, or rather lack thereof. A genre is a genre because it describes a sound, or sometimes thematic elements, or a subculture, or a combination of the three.

What's the common ground here?

edited 22nd Jul '11 11:32:55 PM by Aleksei

Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
Das kann doch nicht sein!
#25: Jul 23rd 2011 at 12:15:46 AM

There is also "Neue Deutsche Härte".

Actually, "Neue Deutsche Welle" is already a fake genre.

edited 23rd Jul '11 12:16:25 AM by Nyarly

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

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