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Not Neutral: Perverse Sexual Lust

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Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#51: Jul 24th 2011 at 8:40:01 PM

All right. I'd like to rename this to something admin-safe, and start an Alternative Titles crowner for Perverse Sexual Lust. Unfortunately, the existing crowner, from a long time ago, has as its only option "Keep as is"—which is never supposed to appear on Alternative Titles! Could some moderator help fix this, please?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#52: Jul 24th 2011 at 8:51:17 PM

Since there is also an old Page Action crowner that showed a 35-9 in favor of "restore Perverse Sexual Lust" under the same name" , and I have no idea how old it it, but it doesn't seem to have been from this discussion, I suggest that a new Single Prop or page action would be in order before we jump to alternative names.

I've locked both of the old ones and will make new ones when y'all tell me which one you want — single prop or page action.

edited 24th Jul '11 8:52:23 PM by Madrugada

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#53: Jul 24th 2011 at 8:59:52 PM

Very well, then. I created a Single Proposition crowner for renaming.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#54: Jul 24th 2011 at 9:22:08 PM

Crowner hooked. The reasons given were both non-reasons: the point of a crowner is to determine what the tropers want, not to declare what they want and ask for validation.

BigT grimAuxiliatrix Since: Jan, 2001
grimAuxiliatrix
#55: Jul 24th 2011 at 10:52:27 PM

I'd say the biggest reason not to rename is that it's an existing term. Our purpose it to catalog tropes. If they have a name, we use it. We make up names when the trope doesn't already have one.

I'm out of the loop since I've been gone for a while, so I'm not sure whether this can be added to the crowner. Someone else can do it for me if it is allowed.

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#56: Jul 26th 2011 at 5:30:02 AM

I'm also pretty sure this is the term used by the people who have it.

As in "I have perverse sexual lust for X". See something like that dozens of times in the forums.

So I have trouble thinking it's offensive to those involved.

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#57: Jul 26th 2011 at 6:24:59 AM

[up]But that's an audience reaction, whereas I think we've decided on having this as an in-series trope.

ThreeferFAQMinorityChick Since: May, 2011
#58: Aug 21st 2011 at 8:48:25 PM

When I saw the trope name Perverse Sexual Lust, I had no clue that it specifically referred to a "real person"'s attraction for a "fictional character." I thought it meant lust taken to extreme lengths. I think it should be renamed something that more aptly conveys what it's supposed to mean, like maybe Crush On Character or Lust For Character.

darkclaw Legs of Justice from Right behind you. Since: Dec, 2010
Legs of Justice
#59: Aug 22nd 2011 at 12:02:51 AM

I think it's fine and we're going far to into Political Correctness Gone Mad if we want to change the name. And that says a lot coming from me, Mr. I Shall Destroy All DoubleStandards and Unfortunate Implications!

On another note, is there a trope for wanting someone badly but in a non-sexual way? Like Perverse Asexual Cuddlelust? Just still here? Because I really want a Jigglypuff. But not in a sexual way. Just in an adorable pet way. Anyways, I'm getting off-topic.

edited 22nd Aug '11 12:03:11 AM by darkclaw

I totally hate my avatar. Just saying.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#60: Aug 22nd 2011 at 12:28:47 AM

I don't think anyone but the OP objected to the name in that fashion. There is, however, the argument that, when thinking of things that might be called Perverse Sexual Lust, crushing on a fictional character is unlikely to top the list.

Unfortunately, the crowner is now strongly against a rename.

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#61: Aug 22nd 2011 at 12:30:18 AM

This is an astonishingly dumb name for this trope.

I'm sure there is an actual trope out there that deserves the title Perverse Sexual Lust, but this sure as hell isn't it.

ThreeferFAQMinorityChick Since: May, 2011
#62: Aug 22nd 2011 at 6:51:07 PM

^ Like which trope? Does it pertain to lust with a specific target other than characters? If so, then please review the Acceptable Sexual Targets page. It would be the same problem, lack of neutrality, except directed at other people. I'd say reserve it for cases where lust is taken to an extreme.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#63: Aug 22nd 2011 at 6:58:06 PM

I don't think s/he was advocating giving another trope this name, and I'm certainly not. The argument is whether "fictional character crush" is really what people would assume Perverse Sexual Lust to mean. Like I've said, I think it's very non-intuitive.

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#64: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:01:14 PM

Right, I was just saying that I'm sure htat somewhere out there is a trope, perhaps yet unidentified, that would deserve this name.

As it stands, its an astonishingly stupid name for this trope, unless you have hilariously low standards for "perverse"

ThreeferFAQMinorityChick Since: May, 2011
#65: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:10:31 PM

If that's what you mean (not too many people would assume that Perverse Sexual Lust refers to attraction for a character), then YES! I was majorly surprised when I found out what Perverse Sexual Lust really meant. My gutter-minded imagination thought up a more extreme meaning for this.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#66: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:17:49 PM

As the crowner stands now, a rename seems pretty unlikely. Has anyone done a misuse check?

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#67: Aug 22nd 2011 at 7:50:41 PM

Here's a too-small-to-be-scientific sample (I started at the top, then skipped down 3-5 entries per step):

There's a lot of the not-in-universe version, which is only a mild case of misuse, but there's enough straight-up misuse for exactly-what-it-sounds-like to be worrisome.

Total: 20
Correct: 3 (15%)
Unknown/missing: 3 (15%)
Not-in-universe: 7 (35%)
Flat misuse: 7 (35%)

edited 22nd Aug '11 7:52:11 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#68: Sep 24th 2011 at 6:14:12 AM

Crowner stands at 22 to 13 against a rename. Of course, the page is still locked. Is it even possible to remedy this?

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#69: Sep 24th 2011 at 1:42:41 PM

I suspect that a lot of the nay voters are mistakenly assuming that this is some sort of attempt to bowdlerize the wiki. Maybe a transplant would make more sense. I mean, if we don't rename this, then we're going to have to clean up all the misuse, which, if my numbers above are indicative, will mean nearly wiping the trope off the wiki! (Ironically, effectively bowdlerizing the wiki much better than any rename would have likely done.)

If we want to consider a transplant, the main question would then become: is what it's being misused for actually tropable? A deeper wick check will probably be required to determine that.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#70: Sep 24th 2011 at 5:24:30 PM

A Xavier B is a troper, that's why it's bugged.

Fight smart, not fair.
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#71: Sep 24th 2011 at 7:42:29 PM

I think the problem here is that the name has currency with a lot of people, but as an audience reaction, and the people who voted down the rename don't quite get that we have a trope here which we don't want to associate with that (hence the aforementioned misuse).

marheavenangel89 Captain Mimi from TEXAS!!!! Since: Mar, 2010
Captain Mimi
#72: Oct 12th 2011 at 8:09:24 PM

I think nothing is wrong with the trope name. I use it all the time when I make fun of myself for my crushes on fictional characters.

edited 12th Oct '11 8:09:52 PM by marheavenangel89

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#73: Oct 13th 2011 at 7:18:29 AM

[up]As I see it, there are two tropes we're talking about here, and the one most commonly called Perverse Sexual Lust is the Audience Reaction. The other is something for which "I use it all the time" is not an applicable phrase.

Both crowners we've had for this have decided on an unworkable result. Is there any way to clear them and start over?

CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#74: Oct 13th 2011 at 7:21:08 AM

There is no point having crowners if you are just going to ignore results you don't like. The wiki has spoken, we should lock and move onto other matters.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#75: Oct 13th 2011 at 8:08:51 AM

Crowner has been up since the end of July, and there's no consensus to rename. The previous thread also produced no consensus to rename. Locking.

Please do not make another thread for this unless you have different arguments to present.

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SingleProposition: PerverseSexualLust
24th Jul '11 8:55:11 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up for yes, down for no.

Total posts: 75
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