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Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Pomeranian Lover
#76: Jul 18th 2011 at 8:01:53 AM

@GAP: That's partially why I don't like the idea that to be "realistic," that a story must be cynical. It could be, but that's just one interpretation of reality, and it can sometimes be just as wrong as being too idealistic. That's kind of the idea behind that third scenario, where the creator is put in his/her own Crapsack World and realizes that it's not as realistic as he/she was intending precisely because it was created to NOT have any of the more positive aspects of real life.

Edit: And I realized that my idea about the evil movie director does have a disturbing real-life equivalent in the way some Enforced Method Acting occurs, although purposely killing/injuring an actor might be a little more extreme than most cases of that (imagine if the actors in a sword fight scene were told that they were supposed to actually use the swords on each other!).

edited 18th Jul '11 8:06:56 AM by Rainbow

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77: Jul 18th 2011 at 10:08:43 AM

Everyone has there own perception on what reality is but not one of them is the correct one. I guess it applies to stories as there are many stories from several different authors.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
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#78: Jul 18th 2011 at 10:11:08 AM

I like that idea about the author living his own story as penance for the suffering he's put his creations through. Sounds like a boatload of fun to write.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Fluid Since: Jan, 2001
#79: Jul 18th 2011 at 10:41:57 AM

I like that idea about the author living his own story as penance for the suffering he's put his creations through. Sounds like a boatload of fun to write.

...with the main character in the writer's seat this time. [lol]

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
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#80: Jul 18th 2011 at 10:48:31 AM

It's like Misery but even worse!

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#81: Jul 18th 2011 at 11:31:05 AM

But what about the 'I just Write the Thing' where the works seemingly has a mind of its own and the writer is just writng what the charcater wants him to write?

wild mass guess Gensokyo actually exists and Yukari got ZUN to write about Gensokyo by offeringhim beer. wild mass guess

But we knew that did we?

Too much meta can be a bad thign when you are unable to distinguish what is reality and fiction.

edited 18th Jul '11 11:35:47 AM by GAP

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Pomeranian Lover
#82: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:18:31 PM

[up] I know that can happen sometimes. Which adds a question, is it possible to make a deconstruction by accident or does it have to be something the author purposely sets out to do?

And as for the type of person who would get punished by his/her creations, I wasn't really thinking of the type of person who lets the characters tell the story. I was more thinking of the type who heaps suffering on his/her characters in the name of being "gritty and realistic" like someone who thinks that happiness is fake and only suffering can be real. A "True Art Is Angsty" type. (yes I hate that trope oh so much)

edited 18th Jul '11 1:23:32 PM by Rainbow

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#83: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:22:55 PM

[up][up] It's been done so much it has it's own trope.

edited 18th Jul '11 1:28:02 PM by KSPAM

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Pomeranian Lover
#84: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:25:13 PM

[up] Edit: I just looked it up and yes, we do have Rage Against the Author on the site. That would be my basic idea.

Another way to deconstruct deconstruction (or at least the idea that only cynicism is realistic) would be a story that shows that someone who has at least some hope for the future is someone who has the willpower to achieve more than someone who thinks "I'm going to fail, so why bother?" Or someone who makes themselves suffer even more because they don't trust anyone (extreme cynicism) and thus end up not accepting help even if they really need it. Then again I may be misunderstanding cynicism, but from what I know about it is that it's the idea that most people are untrustworthy and it seems to go with pessimism a lot too.

edited 18th Jul '11 1:30:59 PM by Rainbow

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#85: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:28:32 PM

I meant Literary Agent Hypothesis, but yes, that too.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Pomeranian Lover
#86: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:43:41 PM

I'm not sure if this would need it's own topic but talking about a specific author of angsty stories that are lauded as being "realistic deconstructions," is it true that Gen Urobuchi thinks that happiness is a lie? Because I read a quote from him like that on the True Art Is Angsty page and it almost sounds like something a stereotypical Card-Carrying Villain would say (like the stereotypical villain who wants to "get rid of happiness", not a real person. Or did he have a lot of suffering in his own life? I don't know anything about him besides what he said there and that he creates angsty stories like Madoka Magica, so I don't know if he has a reason for that statement going by his own experiences or is it just that he's a really cynical person? Mainly because I think it's very disturbing that someone would sincerely think that all happiness is fake or a lie in some way.

edited 18th Jul '11 1:44:26 PM by Rainbow

Fluid Since: Jan, 2001
#87: Jul 18th 2011 at 1:56:17 PM

What I'm getting from that quote is that he doesn't disagree with happy stories per se, but that he just isn't able to write one without going against his own common sense. It's more of a personal shortcoming.

Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Pomeranian Lover
#88: Jul 18th 2011 at 2:21:13 PM

Okay, that makes it a lot less disturbing. I think I took it too literally or something.

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