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Deconstructing TvTropes love of deconstruction

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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#51: Jul 16th 2011 at 6:25:03 AM

There's nothing wrong with playing a trope straight, but there is little variety in that. As such, you can do more when you do something other than playing it straight. Of course, playing a trope perfectly straight may be perfectly appropriate for the work. As I said, none of this is a measure of quality, merely uniqueness. In fact, once a trope is never played straight anymore, seeing it played straight again can be reffreshing.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#52: Jul 16th 2011 at 6:11:04 PM

The term has been tossed around so much its lost all meaning. Like Hipster or Weeaboo.

CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#53: Jul 16th 2011 at 8:54:46 PM

[up]lets Reconstruction it then

edited 16th Jul '11 8:55:20 PM by CommanderObvious

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ladycoffee Shotamouse reporting. from your pocket Since: Sep, 2009
Shotamouse reporting.
#54: Jul 16th 2011 at 9:49:42 PM

Nothing else to add, since everything that needs mentioning have been said already. The only thing I could say is that I'm glad someone noticed the True Art Is Angsty hard-on that a lot of people here have. And this (the TAIA trend) is one of the reasons why I've been disillusioned by the anime fandom in general as well.

WARNING: This troper is a severe monomaniac. Caution is advised.
KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#55: Jul 16th 2011 at 10:16:11 PM

So basically, a deconstruction of our love of deconstruction would involve fiction declaring war on us.

This sounds incredibly awesome. Someone, quick! Write this down!

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#56: Jul 16th 2011 at 10:16:40 PM

[up]wheres gen urobochi or hideaki anno when you need him

edited 16th Jul '11 10:16:58 PM by CommanderObvious

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GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#57: Jul 16th 2011 at 10:50:07 PM

[up] Being trolls. cool

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#58: Jul 16th 2011 at 10:51:02 PM

[up]those guys are such heartwarming pals

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#59: Jul 17th 2011 at 12:39:39 AM

But on a more serious note, one of my main gripes that in addition to angst, you also get a lot of mind screw and incomprehensible things in the story. I am not one to talk but I do agree that there needs to be a limit on the darker and edgier tropes. Anno and Urobuchi seems to love trolling their fans especially due to former's love of mind screw.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#60: Jul 17th 2011 at 1:57:39 AM

im pretty cool with Mind Screw because i grew up on Ren and Stimpy
and im one of those guys who think True Art is Angsty, True Art is Incomprehensible, True Art is Offensive
though i have to agree with the majority deconstruction don't always make good stories

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flygon250 Since: Dec, 2010
#61: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:12:31 AM

I am agreeing with the general school of thought in this thread, and I am a big fan of Mind Screw and such too, though I'm not a huge fan of Evangelion (I prefer Serial Experiments Lain and Utena myself).

What I really came here for is for some more examples of light-hearted deconstructions.

Martian Successor Nadesico has already been mentioned, so it looks like I will be watching that pretty soon.

The first of the two light-hearted deconstructions I can think of off the top of my head is Jungle Wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu, which I view as a deconstruction of the Magical Girlfriend genre in as much as if a normal boy discovers a girl who is much, much more powerful than him, chances are that she views the guy as her toy, and is therefore more likely to torment the guy with her powers For the Lulz than want to become his girlfriend.

The other one probably isn't a full-blown deconstruction, but has deconstructive elements in it. It's Fancy Lala, a personal favourite of mine. It's a deconstruction in as much that the main character actually has to manage the time around her two personas (Ordinary Schoolgirl Miho Shinohara and aspiring idol Fancy Lala), resulting in hectic and occasionally conflicting schedules. She doesn't automatically become the most popular idol in the world either, having to climb up the career ladder as any idol would do. It is pretty forgiving in some other aspects, though, such as perhaps not being punished as hard for being late as you would in real life and such.

So are there any other light-hearted deconstructions apart from the three mentioned in this post?

edited 17th Jul '11 4:13:05 AM by flygon250

CommanderObvious intellectual rapist from Unmei no Itaru Basho Since: Jul, 2011
intellectual rapist
#62: Jul 17th 2011 at 4:19:23 AM

[up]FLCL
considered as a humorous Deconstructor Fleet of NGE
Ouran High School Host Club is also one which mocks the Shoujo genre

edited 17th Jul '11 4:21:12 AM by CommanderObvious

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Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#63: Jul 17th 2011 at 5:58:03 AM

I am a big fan of Urobuchi. Not because he does a lot of deconstruction (he doesn't do that as often as some people believe), but because he is a great writer that manages to keep me on the edge of my seat during his dark musings.

A big problem with deconstructions is the fact that most of them are done by not-quite-as-good writers who think they are oh-so-smart to see that real life wouldn't function as it often does in fiction. However, for such 'smart' people, it seems odd that they couldn't figure out that fiction works the way it does because it is far more entertaining.

Just look at the thread that sparked this thread: plenty of ideas to 'deconstruct' Pervert Revenge Mode, but NONE of them are in any way entertaining. This only proves that PRM is a trope because it does it's job so well, and thus completely fails to invalidate said trope in it's current form.

Bottom line: A good deconstruction should be at least as entertaining as the thing being deconstructed. Otherwise it will have failed to deliver any kind of message, and the writer comes off as an insufferable smartass.

edited 17th Jul '11 6:02:59 AM by Kayeka

Excelion from The Fatherland Since: Sep, 2010
#64: Jul 17th 2011 at 6:04:58 AM

tldr; anime is often cookie-cutter and all we want is to shake things up once in a while.

Most cancerous is the fact that anime is absolutely shameless about this. Especially with all the postmodernism nowadays, it's constantly "HAHA THIS CHARACTER IS A TSUNDERE! XDD" in the anime. It's like they're embracing the fact that they're being unoriginal.

edited 17th Jul '11 6:05:19 AM by Excelion

Murrl LustFatM
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#65: Jul 17th 2011 at 6:10:08 AM

[up][up]Indeed. A piece of fiction that is not entertaining has failed. However, if people didn't find deconstructions entertaining, then they would not be popular (except among those who wished to maintain a facade). The point is, that when something is played straight too often, it becomes predictable, which lessons the entertainment value. Playing with a trope opens more scope, reducing predictability an allowing more options for entertainment. Of course, those options have to be effectively used for the piece of fiction to be entertaining and therefore succesful

edited 17th Jul '11 6:10:45 AM by Sereg

Excelion from The Fatherland Since: Sep, 2010
#66: Jul 17th 2011 at 6:13:27 AM

A piece of fiction that is not entertaining has failed.

I don't believe fiction has to have the inherent goal to entertain. In fact, I'm pretty sure there were a lot of authors who didn't have entertainment as a priority when writing their fiction.

Though it usually ends up being entertaining in some way, shape, or form. Because if something is interesting it is simultaneously entertaining.

Murrl LustFatM
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#67: Jul 17th 2011 at 7:26:34 AM

[up]Maybe I use a broader definition of entertaining than you do. To me, interesting is simply a type of entertaining.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#68: Jul 17th 2011 at 12:28:02 PM

I dont know why people find True Art Is Angsty

Every single upbeat Anime I've seen has been more or less on the top for me. I dont know why people have to drop like flies in order for something to be 'good'

For the record I preferred earlier harry potter to the newer darker ones.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#69: Jul 17th 2011 at 8:23:19 PM

[up] Given Harry's theme of growing up, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Granted, deconstruction may not always mean darker and edgier (see Don Quixote) but there needs to eb a distinction between the two.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Haldo Indecisive pumpkin from Never never land Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
#70: Jul 17th 2011 at 8:49:06 PM

I think part of our infatuation with deconstruction has to do with how in order to deconstruct a genre, you have to pull it apart by the seams.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
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#71: Jul 18th 2011 at 6:28:21 AM

I'm not sure if this would be deconstruction or just "rebellion of the creations" but one idea would be a story about an author (or anime/TV story creator) who likes writing Reality Ensues stories that are Grimdark and are kind of like Madoka Magica in that the author hates escapism and wants to make fictional characters in idealistic and/or cheerful comedic genres face "grim reality." Then those characters come to life and depending on whether or not one wants a darker or more idealistic story, a few different scenarios could happen:

  • In the darker scenario, the characters get violent revenge on the author for putting them through so much torment or else Mind Rape him/her into feeling the same suffering the characters do if it's more emotional than physical.
  • In the more idealistic scenario, the creator is forcibly taken to a fictional world where reality actually does work on idealistic tropes and they are a Wrong Genre Savvy Grumpy Bear who expects things to be all cynical but the world (in the fictional universe they have been put into) really does work on things like the Power of Love and other idealistic tropes.
  • Alternatively, in a combination of the above two ideas, the author is forced to live in his/her own fictional Crapsack World and realizes that the world he/she created is actually worse than reality, showing that extreme cynicism can be just as unrealistic as extreme idealism.

Another idea that wouldn't involve fictional creations rebelling but real people (real in the context of the story at least) would be a story of a cruel movie director who makes the actors suffer because "they have to know how the characters feel" but then the actors rebel against such inhumane treatment. And in this scenario, the movie is completely fictional, so the evil director wouldn't have the justification of "this is what really happened to the people this movie is based off of so the actors are experiencing history through their suffering." Like for example, a character in the movie is supposed to die and the other characters are supposed to be depressed and in mourning afterwards, so the director sets things so that the actor playing the doomed character also dies in reality so that the other actors can feel that same sense of mourning (for extra villain points, have it be someone the other actors become friends with because the characters are friends in the story). Sort of like how Haruhi Suzumiya treats Mikuru in the filming of her movie but extended to more cast members and more evil than just dumping her in a lake and making her wear revealing costumes and wearing her out (that last one is probably just Haruhi being oblivious to other people's energy levels in general).

edited 18th Jul '11 6:46:54 AM by Rainbow

Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#72: Jul 18th 2011 at 6:54:07 AM

[up]On your first suggestion, I'd direct you to Princess Tutu. It does some... interesting things along those lines.

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Excelion from The Fatherland Since: Sep, 2010
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#74: Jul 18th 2011 at 7:39:05 AM

[up][up][up]Another thing we got a kep in mind that most of us have differing perspectives on 'reality'. While there are some 'absolutes', most of our perspectives are shaped by our experiences and what may be reality to one person could be unrealistic to another.

edited 18th Jul '11 7:40:34 AM by GAP

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Fluid Since: Jan, 2001
#75: Jul 18th 2011 at 7:58:43 AM

I remember Grant Morrison's run of Animal Man ending with the title character meeting the author, asking him why he made the character suffer so much. All for the entertainment of strangers, of course.


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