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Deconstructing TvTropes love of deconstruction

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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#26: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:11:05 AM

Agreed. I suppose that a deconstruction of something incredibly dark and cynical would tend to end up as lighter and idealistic.

Moerin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#27: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:15:03 AM

The basic point is, that just because something is dark doesn't mean it's a deconstruction, and just because something's a deconstruction doesn't mean it has to be dark. Lighthearted deconstruction can work, and it can be done really, really well. I hope that at some point in the future we see more works like that, and that the deconstruction trope shrugs off it's stereotype of being dark, edgy, grim works. Not that those can't be good or anything, it's just that... Well, the complaints brought up in this thread already explained it better than I could, really.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#28: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:20:17 AM

[up]Well, yes. That's what I was trying to say earlier.

Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#29: Jul 15th 2011 at 10:14:21 AM

There's a reason Deconstructive Parody exists, after all.

But in consideration, even some of the most famous Deconstructive works around, like Evangelion, Watchmen and Revolutionary Girl Utena, aren't solely Darker and Edgier. They all have their moments of happiness in them (And they all leave room for hope in their endings, even if they aren't necessarily happy).

edited 15th Jul '11 10:15:02 AM by Drakyndra

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FurikoMaru Reverse the Curse from The Arrogant Wasteland Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Reverse the Curse
#30: Jul 15th 2011 at 12:28:56 PM

To appreciate a Deconstruction in full, you have to have a great deal of familiarity with the subject matter played with. As people who pride ourselves on our familiarity with tropes and conventions and cliches and such, we like shows that are made with us in mind. Simple.

Also, there are many tropes that bother us, whether because of a moral objection or because they're on their way to become dead horse tropes, or just because they fuck with our respective suspensions of disbelief. Deconstructing those tropes is a way to channel our frustrations with them... constructively, ironically enough.

edited 15th Jul '11 12:29:25 PM by FurikoMaru

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#31: Jul 15th 2011 at 3:44:43 PM

[up] And yet there are some writers who mess that up and manage to just change it without addressing some flaws in the trope or worse, empathizing or adding more flaws to it.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#32: Jul 15th 2011 at 3:48:07 PM

Ugh. Not more of this. I think deconstruction is a real thing and even I'm sick of hearing the word thrown around on this website by now.

Anyway, I just dropped by this thread to complain, so I'm going now. tongue

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#33: Jul 15th 2011 at 3:57:06 PM

[up] Staaaaaaaayyyyyyy. And complain more.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Torquey Dreamworks Since: Oct, 2010
Dreamworks
#34: Jul 15th 2011 at 4:36:41 PM

You want to know the reason why tropers like to deconstruct anime?

Well, for one thing, 95% of tropers have boners for Evangelion and want to follow in its footsteps.

Secondly (and more importantly), anime is cliche. Moreso than western animation. Turn on the TV in America and what do you get? A boy and his magical dog going on adventures, a messiah-like figure traveling across the world to stop a war 100 years too late, a formulaic show that mocks its formulaic concept whenever possible.

Now what do you get when you watch Japanese television? Well, you can watch the massive fuckload of Shōnen programming all following the same pattern Dragon Ball Z set 20 years ago. If that's not your fancy, then why not watch the dozens of moe and ecchi programs that survive simply because a majority of Japanese viewers (and similarly, American viewers) are hardcore otaku who eat this shit up. Keep in mind that I'm not saying these shows are bad. I'm just saying that they follow a strict plot with the same reused tropes over and over again (One Piece, for example, follows the shonen stereotype to the letter and, in many people's opinions, is the best manga out of the big three).

Sure, there are a few select anime that transcend cliches, but they're few and far between. This is why so many tropers love deconstructions: we want something to offer a change of pace from the usual drivel we are force-fed.

I'll admit that it even happens to me as well; I honestly think that the beginning plot of To Love Ru is good enough to stand on its own, but is plastered with so much stereotypical Unwanted Harem tropes (like the Accidental Pervert trope mentioned in the first post) that I sometimes imagine if they had a plot twist like having Momo's "carnivore ending" fail miserably and cause disaster to the entire cast because goddammit she's just a hypersexual bitch who doesn't realize that some people don't care about fucking and just want a single marriage founded on love (seriously, why does only the hero in ecchi works realize this?). Because that would be a huge "fuck you" to everybody who eats shows like this up and demand studios to just make all of this formulaic shit instead of original shit and now I'm just ranting, aren't I? Sorry, I'll stop.

tldr; anime is often cookie-cutter and all we want is to shake things up once in a while. Also, many of us still have boners for Evangelion. Pick whichever answer fits the best.

edited 15th Jul '11 4:38:45 PM by Torquey

FurikoMaru Reverse the Curse from The Arrogant Wasteland Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Reverse the Curse
#35: Jul 15th 2011 at 4:51:02 PM

^ 3/10. Use more shake-on sparkles next time. See Bobby G after class.

edited 15th Jul '11 4:51:24 PM by FurikoMaru

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#36: Jul 15th 2011 at 4:53:13 PM

[up][up] I have a theory on why animes are so cookie cutter; maybe Japanese animation tends to be, usually, more sophisticated than cartoons and therefore cost more money to produce and adding the fact that Japan doesn't have nearly as much capital as America does, taking risk is not a good thing for them. Therefore, animes tend to Follow the Leader more. Remember, this is my personal theory.

Although I have a feeling that you are way too over-generalizing, but since my reference pool is too small, I can't argue with you about that.

edited 15th Jul '11 4:54:47 PM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#37: Jul 15th 2011 at 4:54:27 PM

[up][up] What Furiko Maru said. Pure fail, I would say 2/10.

Watch Symphogear
RedViking Since: Jan, 2001
#38: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:00:54 PM

I have to agree with what Anarchy said. In addition, although the path involving deconstruction and reconstruction is cyclical, it's not static: When you deconstruct something, you show what doesn't work and why. When you reconstruct something, you build back to the original and address the issues that the deconstruction pointed out.

Ultimately, the entire deconstruction/reconstruction process, done correctly, adds something that wasn't present in the original trope. It's how tropes evolve over time if you were to ask me.

I think many of us like deconstructions because this site is dedicated to categorizing tropes we encounter in the media we follow. We love tropes, we wouldn't be here otherwise. Since we are aware of the tropes that are currently present, I think that some of us, subconsciously or otherwise, are trying to pick tropes apart in order to start the process and see what we can come up with.

This site is a collective brainstorming session. When people on this site say they like deconstructions, I think what they're really saying is: "What else can be done with this trope that currently isn't?"

edited 15th Jul '11 6:11:47 PM by RedViking

onyhow Too much adorableness from Land of the headpats Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Too much adorableness
#39: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:12:30 PM

Well, if anyone want to go meta, I got the topic up...

The reason? I'm not sure about the reason exactly, but some people might not like the unrealisticness of some tropes...although why don't they try to deconstruct something like Darker and Edgier is beyond me...

Give me cute or give me...something?
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#40: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:22:00 PM

Oh, hey! It's this thread again!

I'm actually happy to see it before it went on for too long this time. But I really do agree with it. Just because a work deconstructs something doesn't make it a good or entertaining work. Sometimes not even anymore than the so called target of deconstruction.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Firestorm Nudist Snake from Just Chillin Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Nudist Snake
#41: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:36:14 PM

I think another reasons so many tropers have a boner for deconstruction is because it's a way for them to brag. "Hey look at My Show/Book/Movie/Game/Whatever! Isn't it just so edgy and subversive?"

Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
Avvie-free for life!
#42: Jul 15th 2011 at 9:39:34 PM

So... when are we going to get round to the title and write a work that deconstructs our love for deconstruction?

Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#43: Jul 15th 2011 at 11:42:13 PM

I'd prefer something that's not a total waste of time. I'm saying that and I've sometimes spent all day reblogging shit on Tumblr and reading fan fiction, just to give you an idea of how pointless the idea is.

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
FurikoMaru Reverse the Curse from The Arrogant Wasteland Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Reverse the Curse
#44: Jul 15th 2011 at 11:55:03 PM

To deconstruct reality, turn to fiction. In a fictional verse, were it real where ours is fake, our deconstructions would do tons of damage; think about the tropes and concepts they'd mess around with - to anyone in a fictional world, that'd be almost like raping reality.

So basically, a deconstruction of our love of deconstruction would involve fiction declaring war on us.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!
Five_X Maelstrom Since: Feb, 2010
Maelstrom
#45: Jul 16th 2011 at 12:11:22 AM

My mind is full of fuck!

To be honest, I'm more interested in getting away from postmodernism itself, from which deconstruction stems. That crap is so pervasive even my spellchecker recognizes it.

However, making attempts at getting away from postmodernism is postmodernist in itself...

I write pretty good fanfiction, sometimes.
UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#46: Jul 16th 2011 at 4:29:39 AM

I think deconstruction gets a disproportionate amount of attention.

Deconstruction is one possible way for a work to be post-modern and post modern stories are only one narrative movement.

I guess when I think about it, a post-modern story is easier to get right (at it's easiest just Lampshade Hang everything right?), and this may be why things like this are finding popularity recently.

Personally I'll take self awareness any day over Wall Bangers (which even a basic Hand Wave/lampshade could take care of in most cases) but I really appreciate stories that work without being post-modern, deconstructions or even reconstructions particularly if they aren't trying to be Daker And Edgier either (a trend, and indeed a style I hate). I suppose technically any medium awareness could be seen as corrupting the essence of the story itself, but that (and whether a story can truly mean anything outside a medium) is probably too deep a discussion for this topic.

So basically I'm not particularly fond of Deconstructions (especially when they're Darker and Edgier) but I appreciate post-modernism as the acknowledging of tropes and the audience. In fact I consider it to be in general something that says a work is more likely to be good, but otherwise Idon't hold deconstructions in any particular esteem. I'm not entirely sure if I've seen enough anime to compare straight stories to their deconstructions either (I liked Sailor Moon more than Puella Magi Madoka Magica but personal taste, darkness and angst levels probably have something to do with that).

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#47: Jul 16th 2011 at 4:53:44 AM

In my opinion, it's a number of things. Deconstruction has a reputation for being very intellectual so therefore tropers, whose bread and bones are looking at the tropes of something and seeing how it works, which is in itself a intellectual pursuit, would naturally be drawn to deconstruction.

Also, as others have said, deconstruction has a reputation for being Darker and Edgier, and as every one knows, True Art is Angsty, so again, it's no surprise that tropers, who generally follow that last trope to the letter, would be interested in deconstruction, especially when it take things that they may not like or agree with and make them darker.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#48: Jul 16th 2011 at 4:58:22 AM

[up] You have excellently summarized past few dozen posts.

People are not interested in putting fictional elements in real life's context. They just want to make their work stand apart from others by trying to make it look intellectual.

Fuck. That. Shit.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
Avvie-free for life!
#49: Jul 16th 2011 at 5:36:12 AM

It does become a problem when no matter how gloriously a work plays a trope straight, there will be a handful of posters who insist that it should have been somehow, anyhow played with instead.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#50: Jul 16th 2011 at 5:42:41 AM

[up] It annoys me how using a trope straight isn't part of playing with a trope. What really matter is using the trope whenever is appropriate in the context of fiction or the author's intention, good or not.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.

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