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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#476: Feb 19th 2014 at 4:34:21 PM

On the Discussion of whether Walt should get away with it:

I disagree, I don't think Walt should get away with everything he has done. One thing the show makes clear, especially in the final season is that being Heisenberg is Walt's addiction. While Jesse battles with a Drug Addicton, Walt has an addiction to his power fantasy that he doesn't want to let go. Season 5 sees him trying to quit cold turkey before eventually relapsing.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#477: Feb 19th 2014 at 10:58:46 PM

It's hard to say whether Walt "gets away" with what he did or not. On the one hand, he dies, on the other hand, he's been expecting to die since the very first episode, so it's not like that's as big a deal for him as it would be for most people.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#478: Feb 20th 2014 at 2:32:57 AM

If his family gets to keep the money, technically he's won. By the standards he set in Season 1, even $730,000 is enough to meet his own win condition.

edited 20th Feb '14 2:33:46 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#479: Feb 20th 2014 at 3:05:40 AM

I don't know about whether he won or not but I feel that the ending is pitch perfect for the series. I suggest going immediately from the finale to the pilot and you see walt in a completely new light.

edited 20th Feb '14 3:08:08 AM by thatguythere47

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
millardkillmoore Since: Mar, 2010
#480: Feb 24th 2014 at 5:39:35 PM

So I just finished the series. I had always heard that Skyler was The Scrappy, but I'm not really seeing why. She ended up being one of my favorite characters and I really don't get the hate that so much of the fanbase seems to have for her. What exactly is the problem most people seem to have with the character?

Also: Screw Walter. That bastard deserved everything he got.

randomfan Since: Oct, 2010
#481: Feb 24th 2014 at 5:47:35 PM

The reason is because a lot of people don't seem to realise Walt is a horrible person and so see Skyler being in the way as annoying.

There was a time in my life I had dignity, a time before the giant monster corgi.
millardkillmoore Since: Mar, 2010
#482: Feb 24th 2014 at 5:52:15 PM

[up]

That was my initial thought. But Hank doesn't seem to elicit the same reaction from people and, unlike Skyler, he never supports Walter's criminal activities.

edited 24th Feb '14 5:52:34 PM by millardkillmoore

kalel94 Rascal King from Dragonstone Since: Feb, 2011
Rascal King
#483: Feb 24th 2014 at 6:03:04 PM

She's not badass.

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#484: Feb 24th 2014 at 7:33:50 PM

More unkindly but precisely: she's a coward and a neurotic, subservient woman. I'd place her at more or less the same strength of character tier as Jesse Pinkman. Except she somehow comes off as less pitiful and more annoying.

I'm ashamed to say that I found Hank's reaction to realizing who Heisenberg was to be somewhat unfair. Then again, he was never there to see the One Thing Led to Another flow of things. Walter was, twice, pressured and manipulated into continuing to cook, and then he was stuck there, essentially a slave under constant threat of death. It's only after he kills Gus that he jumps off the slippery slope into genuine, unabashed evil.

I think a very important theme in this series is Hobbes Was Right; once you start dealing in the illegal, you become all enemies of the State. For this to function, an honor system needs to be established in place of the enforcement of the law. We may also call it "street cred".

  • You establish a reputation for trustworthiness in your deals. The problem is, no matter how good this reputation is, your partners will always live in fear of a Prisoner's Dilemma (sometimes a literal one) where you might reasonably expect to betray them and get away with this. This is especially stressful since it often involves Leave No Witnesses. Which leads us to the next point:
  • You let it be known that, whoever gets you, you'll get them back.
"Tom, don't let anybody kid you. It's all personal, every bit of business. Every piece of shit every man has to eat every day of his life is personal. They call it business. OK. But it's personal as hell. You know where I learned that from? The Don. My old man. The Godfather. If a bolt of lightning hit a friend of his the old man would take it personal. He took my going into the Marines personal. That's what makes him great. The Great Don. He takes everything personal. Like God. He knows every feather that falls from the tail of a sparrow or however the hell it goes. Right? And you know something? Accidents don't happen to people who take accidents as a personal insult." —Michael Corleone
  • Whenever you rat your fellow criminals out to the government, you lose all honor, all reputation, all respect, all right to fair treatment. It's the equivalent to using a nuke in modern international politics. Your fellow criminals will go out of their way to make you pay for that, because that kind of defection compromises their entire system.

Perhaps Walter should have thought of all that before he went into that business, rather than his Too Clever by Half "I will make excellent meth because I'm a chemistry genius, and thereafter mucho money." Greed, Pride, Wrath, and, ultimately, being Too Dumb to Live: this was how he fell.

I still think he should have gotten away with it, intellectually speaking. There was a bit too much Idiot Ball passed around. But given his Misaimed Fandom, he needed a Light Yagami ending to drive the point home. Warning: massive Late Arrival Spoilers

edited 24th Feb '14 7:58:11 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#485: Feb 25th 2014 at 2:04:03 AM

See, I think Walt went off the slippery slope back in Season 1. He discovered that cooking meth would almost inevitably put him in situations where his life and his family's lives would be put at risk, and he might have to choose between giving himself up to the police or murdering someone in cold blood. And he discovered that, when put in such a situation, he'd choose to commit murder.

Yet, despite all that, and despite the Schwartzes offering to take care of his medical bills, which was the whole reason he started down the dark path in the first place, he decides to keep cooking meth anyway. You'll note that, when he kills Crazy 8, he takes a long time thinking about what he should do, and comes within a hair's breadth of not doing it, before finally making his decision. All the morally reprehensible stuff Walt does after that? Never a trace of hesitation (unless it concerns his family or Jesse, which is more a matter of personal affection than morality).

As for Skyler, honestly, I think a lot of the hate is due to people getting pissed at her for the "talking pillow" scene and just never letting it go.

edited 25th Feb '14 2:06:41 AM by RavenWilder

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#486: Feb 25th 2014 at 2:12:42 AM

Which scene? EDIT: Ah, found it: that's a silly thing to hold a grudge about.

And I think it is a matter of morality, if a primitive and unsustainable one. Amoral familism is basically mafioso morality, and look what good it did them in Southern Italy; northerners treat it like it's Ethiopia.

edited 25th Feb '14 2:14:09 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#487: Feb 25th 2014 at 2:17:22 AM

The thing is, most people watching Breaking Bad have never been beaten, shot, or poisoned by drug dealers. However, a lot of them probably have known someone who was very controlling and tried to pressure them into doing things they didn't want to do. Skyler's bad behavior hits home in a way that Walt's doesn't, despite Walt's being far, far worse.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#488: Feb 25th 2014 at 3:06:32 AM

I've grown in a household where that kind of stuff is the norm. As far as I was concerned, she was acting perfectly within normal parameters.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
millardkillmoore Since: Mar, 2010
#489: Feb 25th 2014 at 11:48:04 AM

[up]x4

Pretty much this. In the beginning, he was incredibly desperate for money. But midway through the first season, he loses any semblance of an excuse for his behavior. It was at that point that his, "I'm doing this for my family" mantra became obvious B.S.. If he really wanted what was best for his family, he'd have swallowed his pride and taken the Schwartzes' offer. But preserving his ego was ultimately more important to him than his family's safety. Though he was a Villain Protagonist by Season 1, I think that he fully crossed the Moral Event Horizon at the end of season 2 when he let Jane die.

The contrast between Walter's hesitation and disgust with killing a guy who will probably kill him and his entire family in Season 1 and his casual indifference to a little kid getting shot and ordering the deaths of a bunch of people he's never met in order to keep himself out of jail for a few months is pretty staggering. Walter was definitely a monster by the end, regardless of when exactly he crossed the line.

edited 25th Feb '14 12:12:49 PM by millardkillmoore

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#490: Feb 25th 2014 at 11:59:06 AM

Not just shot, but dissolved. By him.

HE DISSOLVED A CHILD'S BODY IN HYDROCHLORIC ACID. TALK ABOUT PROPER BURIAL.

ANYONE AFTER SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD FUCKING STOP. Anyone with a shred of decency.

Five million dollars. He could have started a legit company. Release something that maybe helped save lives, rather than ruin them. Prove he's a genius.

I heard they're making a Spanish version of Breaking Bad. I wish it were about Gus Frin's backstory (played by an actual native Spanish speaker, although frankly the guy who played Gus did a damn good job for a foreigner). How did he end up becoming the soulless husk we see today? And why does he take out the garbage of his chicken restaurant? And did he ever actually have a family? And was his cook his lover? And why does he care so much about adjusting his clothes?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#492: Feb 25th 2014 at 12:28:12 PM

He never was a nice guy. That was obvious from the moment he tried to pull that Suicide by Cop deal, way back in Episode 1; he would rather open fire on decent cops than give himself up. His dramatic posturing to the camera about how that was all for the sake of the children...

Frankly, I think he should have taken Tuco's offer and gone to that factory in the jungle. You know, away from his family. He could have arranged for them to get the money.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
kalel94 Rascal King from Dragonstone Since: Feb, 2011
Rascal King
#493: Feb 25th 2014 at 12:31:13 PM

[up][up][up]He was a soulless husk because he spent a good chunk of his life motivated solely by revenge. He takes out the garbage himself because he believes in a strong work ethic. If he had a family, they probably weren't important. I think his partner was more like a brother (hence the title Hermanos). He adjusts his clothes because he's a perfectionist.

edited 25th Feb '14 12:31:55 PM by kalel94

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
millardkillmoore Since: Mar, 2010
#494: Feb 25th 2014 at 12:33:37 PM

Since Better Caul Saul will have Mike as a regular, we may well see more of Gus.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#495: Feb 25th 2014 at 12:36:51 PM

Walts slippery slope came right in the pilot episode when he made the decision to approach Jesse at all. A big part of why he descended there is because he wanted to take responsibility for everything on his own, that includes the weight of having cancer. Pushing any sort of emotional support out of the way (not wanting them to bear that burden) left him without any moral anchor to think clearly.

I do think the moment he really crossed the line was his return to cooking after getting the 1.2 million payout from Gus. Cancer free at that point, financially stable, that is where he turned to the business out of pure ego and not the "for my family" justification. Tying himself to Gus is what lead to the highest stress point running through the 3rd and 4th seasons. From there being able to match Gus in the conflict gave him the massive ego boost that made him full on Heisenberg in season 5.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#496: Feb 25th 2014 at 12:49:12 PM

He didn't match Gus, he just snuck a sneak attack. "Killing Jesse James don't make you Jesse James".

I think the strongest thing I've gotten from this series were the methead dens. Especially Pooch and his Lady's. That was nightmarish. It looked like something right out of Silent Hill. They could make a horror game like that, just about dealing with junkies. "DON'T GET IN MY HEAD MAN! DON'T GET IN MY HEAD!"

*squish*

Oh, and I'm amazed at how laid-back and natural Todd is about all he did. It's like the diametral opposite of Jesse. "Yeah, there was a change in management." The entire group of neo-nazis are just such happy campers.

edited 25th Feb '14 12:51:37 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
kalel94 Rascal King from Dragonstone Since: Feb, 2011
Rascal King
#497: Feb 25th 2014 at 1:00:55 PM

Todd obviously... isn't right.

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
zam Since: Jun, 2009
#498: Feb 25th 2014 at 1:03:19 PM

Todd is anti-Jesse. Jesse makes a big face over how "gansta" he is but he's insanely emotional.

Todd is this friendly all-american schoolboy type who happens to be dead inside.

edited 25th Feb '14 1:04:07 PM by zam

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#499: Feb 25th 2014 at 1:19:59 PM

I didn't know this existed. This, I think, is the best point of Breaking Bad: Surreal Verisimilitude, Absolute Awkwardness. Like, It Makes Sense in Context, but it's all so insane...

edited 25th Feb '14 1:20:27 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#500: Feb 26th 2014 at 10:50:48 AM

Todd was, I'm fairly sure, a literal sociopath in the clinical sense of the word. The guy has no capacity whatsoever for empathy, and is chillingly calm throughout everything. He's one of the scariest characters in the series because of it, and a hell of a lot more effective than a ot of melodramatic "sociopaths" you see in the media.

With Walt, I subscribe to the view that the Schwartzes were right that he never did have as much influence on the company as he thought and claimed he did. Maybe he genuinely thought otherwise, or convinced himself that it was the case despite knowing originally that it wasn't. But that sense of inadequacy and the belief that he is somehow naturally entitled to more because of inherent genius that others fail to recognise did not come out of nowhere. Nor can I readily believe that it was only the drug dealer career that created that in him; seems far more deeprooted, so I'm convinced that the Schwartzes were telling the truth, not just trying to make themselves look good by distancing themselves from Walt.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

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