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Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#101: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:48:49 PM

Wiktionary gives me:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/run_hot_and_cold

to run hot and cold (idiomatic) To alternate between two opposite extremes, such as enthusiasm and disinterest or success and failure. Henrietta's feelings for Delbert run hot and cold—one minute she's hopelessly in love with him, and the next she can't stand the sight of him.

revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#102: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:53:10 PM

[up]That does not seem to be the same as tsundere.

Down to 5 million if you include politics/ethnicity, sales, industry (steel manufacturing was big), stocks/economics. I use the first page to catch any results that are not relevant.

And Google is now giving me captcha tests. tongue

edited 14th Jul '11 8:54:13 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#103: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:54:40 PM

If you rule out that many things then you're going to end up ruling out a lot of good examples as well. You've now included - enough common words to make any results meaningless.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#104: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:56:09 PM

Okay, I think we have determined that Tsundere is used, in the way we define it, off the site. We can stop publishing increasingly specific google results now.

And until someone can prove there is actually some meaningful distinction between Western/Eastern versions of Tsundere, or that we need more subtropes, I think the trope is fine.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#105: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:58:02 PM

[up][up]True but a lot of results disappear just with mentioning weather and plumbing/laundry. Not terms I associate with discussions of tsundere characters, etc.

[up]Sorry. Got carried away.

edited 14th Jul '11 9:01:20 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#106: Jul 14th 2011 at 9:10:26 PM

And according to this site:

to be sometimes good/useful/effective/positive and sometimes the opposite

Yeah, that's out as a redirect. Way too broad, as it includes some of the -deres along with many other tropes.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#107: Jul 14th 2011 at 9:50:10 PM

"Plays Hard To Get"? I've used it to describe Tsundere to my friends and they usually understand.

Or "Playing Hard to Get". Edit: Welp never mind I guess that's already a trope...

edited 14th Jul '11 9:50:48 PM by HeavyDDR

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#108: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:02:28 PM

[up]Except most of the stereotypical Tsundere are not "playing" at all. They really are that way.

edited 14th Jul '11 10:03:03 PM by Heatth

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#109: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:09:03 PM

I don't know, the two best examples of tsundere I know (Helga and Ayase) really want the protagonist, but act harshly and bitter towards them.

edited 14th Jul '11 10:09:51 PM by HeavyDDR

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#110: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:19:52 PM

Yes. But I believe neither is acting as a tsundere out of the hope the guy will pay attention on thanks to that. Almost the opposite, in fact, they act that way as a defense mechanism to hide their embarrass and/or to hide their love. Which is how a tsundere stereotypically do.

Playing Hard to Get, as I understand, is deliberately turning off a guy who is already interested on her so he will be even more infatuated. One valid "tactic" is act in a way similar to of a Tsundere, but not the only one (playing cold is valid too). And the guy need to already show some interest (or so must the girl believe). It is a completely different concept.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#111: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:31:21 PM

That is true. I was wondering why we had Tsundere and Playing Hard To Get as two different tropes in the first place.

Though, it still seems blurry to me. I don't like many series with a Tsundere character in the first place, so that may be why, but, still. I've seen it used in just so many ways, it seems like whether the protagonist is actually interested in them effects the trope very little.

It seems like Tsundere is just who they actually are - but whether they're like that so the protagonist notices them or not is variable. But Playing Hard To Get is when they know the protagonist is interested in them, and plays this way on purpose to drag out "the chase."

Is that right?

edited 14th Jul '11 10:34:49 PM by HeavyDDR

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#112: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:46:43 PM

Pretty much, I believe. Tsundere is a personality type, while Playing Hard to Get is an action.

Furthermore, Playing Hard to Get can broader, as it is not limited to what I will cal "tsundere tactic". Acting cold, instead of harsh, is still a valid way of Playing Hard to Get.

Meanwhile, Playing Hard to Get is more specific, as it need a "would be" love relation (a tsundere character actually doesn't need to be in love, though it is very common). Playing Hard to Get also imply a mutual interest (or so the one "playing" believes). Tsunderes, however, are frequently one sided.

To sum up, while they are somewhat similar, they are very different still. There is no much relation between the two tropes. Overlaps are rare, but it is not exactly mutually exclusive either.

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#113: Jul 14th 2011 at 10:53:43 PM

Well, either way, consider my suggestion defeated.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#114: Jul 15th 2011 at 6:02:31 AM

Also, you can play hard to get by just being coy and sweet, but not easy.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#115: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:16:42 PM

The most literal (however still misleading) name for a redirect would be Harsh To Lovestruck.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#116: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:37:41 PM

How about Harsh Yet A Softie for tsun-dominant, with Softie Yet Harsh for dere-dominant?

edited 15th Jul '11 1:38:32 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#117: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:39:07 PM

[up]As a redirect, it is fine, I guess. But wouldn't Harsh Yet Soft sound better?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#120: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:47:58 PM

... Now that I think about it, what's the difference between Tsundere Type A and Jerk with a Heart of Gold?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#121: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:50:01 PM

Type A can overlap with a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but usually not. The moods of a Tsundere tend to switch in reaction to the actions of select people or adverse scenarios; the deredere side usually only comes out when someone has acted in a way to trigger it. A Jerk with a Heart of Gold is jerkish in general regardless of whether the other person is mean or nice, and shows their Hidden Heart of Gold only when the situation warrants, regardless of how the other person had been acting.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#122: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:50:08 PM

From the description:

"Type A can overlap with a Jerk With a Heart of Gold, but usually not. The moods of a Tsundere tend to switch in reaction to the actions of select people or adverse scenarios; the deredere side usually only comes out when someone has acted in a way to trigger it. A Jerk With a Heart of Gold is jerkish in general regardless of whether the other person is mean or nice, and shows their Hidden Heart Of Gold only when the situation warrants, regardless of how the other person had been acting. Male characters in particular should be considered for Jerk With a Heart of Gold status, as arguably because of Double Standards, men are generally that instead of tsundere, although the kuudere subtype is more equally split in gender. Oranyan is sometimes used to refer to a male tsundere character - incorrectly since it means the complete opposite. "

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#123: Jul 15th 2011 at 1:58:25 PM

So a tsundere would alternate between nice and mean depending on who he/she is interacting with.

A Jerk with a Heart of Gold would act mean the whole time until some desperate situation happens like a young girl tripping in front of a incoming truck needs to be rescued. Is this right?

edited 15th Jul '11 1:59:35 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#124: Jul 15th 2011 at 2:14:15 PM

[up]No quite. For what I understand, a Tsundere vary between nice and mean in relation to a single specific person (or group, or whatever). As in, if a girl is aways nice to someone and aways mean to another, she is not really a tsundere. But if she is sometiems sweet to the one she is usually harsh, then she is a (tsun-type) Tsundere.

TheDeadMansLife Lover of masks. Since: Nov, 2009
Lover of masks.
#125: Jul 15th 2011 at 2:14:19 PM

Look. Im looking at this trope name on wikipedia and they say that it's only one directional. So am I reading wrong our is the page wrong?

Please.

AlternativeTitles: Tsundere
25th Jul '11 8:07:28 PM

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