Eddie, its beyond anime fanspeak now. They invented the term before anyone else, that's just the way it is. Like I said on the other thread, its the same reason we use Deus ex Machina: Somebody invented it, and it caught on. That's just how it works.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.But a pre-existing term is a pre-existing term, considering the fact that it is a term that isn't constrained to one work or fandom, like The Trope Formally Named Nakama.
By the way, the phrase Runs Hot And Cold is a little too broad for this trope, if Wiktionary is correct:
Even if you account for the fact that a great chunk of the hits are discussing it in manga and anime, the fact that Google turns up 16.3 million uses of the term "tsundere" on English-language pages, with consensus on the definition and one we're using here shows that we're dealing with a term that is catching on and spreading effectively.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.That must be one big fan-term.
In short, it dwarfs most of our pre-existing titles, so you can't really call it obscure.
edited 14th Jul '11 7:32:11 PM by chihuahua0
And it is over 8 million hits with (-anime -manga -japan -japanese). So Japan doesn't have much to do with its usage.
EDIT: Just "tsundere" hits 17 million and (-japan -japanese) gives 14.4 million. About half of the results are not associated with anime, manga, japan, etc.
edited 14th Jul '11 7:37:49 PM by revolution11
Think Of The Ewoks.....People don't necessarily conveniently use the term "anime" or "manga" (or "Japanese") every time they discuss a work that happens to be anime or manga. So these Google results aren't necessarily meaningful.
I do think the Japanese were the conceptual codifiers (if you will), and I think the term is definitely starting to make its way into western culture.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.I didn't mean it to be proof. Just providing a scale of the usage of the term.
One last search (-japan -japanese -anime -manga -visual -novel -review -blog) still shows 6.5 million, although the results are of poor quality (the last 4 terms are more important as filters).
EDIT: Ok, this is just weird. 17 million for just "tsundere" but 20 million for excluding the word "trope". What?
edited 14th Jul '11 8:04:20 PM by revolution11
Think Of The Ewoks........by the way, does Kuudere have an acceptable English language redirect yet?
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.Hey, as long as we still have an article for Tsundere that we can link when it is most clearly applicable and appropriate to the specific cultural context of the work I don't have much invested in what else is split off from the trope to make a sister trope, super trope or whatever.
Just keep in mind though, that like so many other words, it has come to have several different usages, and if you are coming up with a Western equivalent term it might be easier to have a different term for each of the several meanings. Looking at various sites, I see...
1) Tsundere as a relationship where initial hostility gradually gives way to affection (though not necessarily romance)
2) Tsundere as a character that often presents a combative, prickly attitude toward others but is actually kind and nice on the inside
3) The definition we are using, which places emphasis on a character with strongly alternating moods swinging back in forth, often motivated by equal strong but conflicting reasons for liking and disliking a person.
4) Some combination of all of the above.
You might also want to examine the many tropes already listed in the Tsundere article and consider how they relate to what you are trying to accomplish.
edited 14th Jul '11 8:32:53 PM by Auxdarastrix
for me, "Hot and Cold personality" would mean basically the same as Tsundere.
Except that it would actually make the trope slightly broader, since it would not necessarily sugggest "lover interest" or gender specific.
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Wouldn't #1 be Defrosting Ice Queen and #2 be Jerk with a Heart of Gold? I don't see the problem.
edited 14th Jul '11 8:34:18 PM by revolution11
Think Of The Ewoks.....![]()
Tsundere, as currently defined on our website, isn't necessarily a Love Interest either, though it's more or less typical for a Tsundere character to be so.
A Defrosting Ice Queen can be either "actively" hostile/"violent" or adopt a "passive" emotionless/cold front.
edited 14th Jul '11 8:36:03 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.By the way, for comparison, "runs hot and cold" -tvtropes (Just to keep out own discussions out of any of this) stops returning results (not counting omitted results) on page 55 because you really cannot completely trust all the numbers Google throws up. (546,000 stated results)
'tsundere -trope -manga -japan -japanese -anime -manga -blog -visual -novel' gives 6,580,000 stated results and fills all the 100 pages Google actually ever coughs up.
Just thought I'd throw those up there, and sorry to be a bit late with doing so.
edited 14th Jul '11 8:36:29 PM by Balmung
Add -temperature and -laundry and the results fall to 23.7 million.
EDIT: -water removes another 10 million. Removing cars, trucks, and engines reduces it to 9 million.
40 million as a usage of the trope is nowhere close to the truth. This is used more as plumbing terminology.
6.5 million including your terms as filters.
edited 14th Jul '11 8:49:38 PM by revolution11
Think Of The Ewoks.....
Crown Description:
Note: This is only for searchable redirects, not a rename.

Okay, on the Defrosting Ice Queen thing.
I'd really like it if we didn't have to explain an anime fanspeak term in order to explain a trope in — for instance — a Marvel comic book. The fanspeak trip is unnecessary.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty