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Redirect Farming: looking for another word for:: Tsundere

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FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#76: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:56:33 PM

Okay, on the Defrosting Ice Queen thing.

I'd really like it if we didn't have to explain an anime fanspeak term in order to explain a trope in — for instance — a Marvel comic book. The fanspeak trip is unnecessary.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#77: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:58:34 PM

Eddie, its beyond anime fanspeak now. They invented the term before anyone else, that's just the way it is. Like I said on the other thread, its the same reason we use Deus ex Machina: Somebody invented it, and it caught on. That's just how it works.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#78: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:09:58 PM

It's beyond fanspeak now. As you had heard more than once, there's a good chance it'll turn into a loanword in the next decade.

@Last Page: And Tsundere isn't a supertrope of Kuudere because the latter is when the character has an emotionless outside, but with actual emotions inside.

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#79: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:10:59 PM

I don't think it's caught on to the extent some think it has. Other than here, I've never seen it used for any but a Japanese-culture dependent work.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#80: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:14:27 PM

But a pre-existing term is a pre-existing term, considering the fact that it is a term that isn't constrained to one work or fandom, like The Trope Formally Named Nakama.

By the way, the phrase Runs Hot And Cold is a little too broad for this trope, if Wiktionary is correct:

To alternate between two opposite extremes, such as enthusiasm and disinterest or success and failure.

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#81: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:15:17 PM

Even if you account for the fact that a great chunk of the hits are discussing it in manga and anime, the fact that Google turns up 16.3 million uses of the term "tsundere" on English-language pages, with consensus on the definition and one we're using here shows that we're dealing with a term that is catching on and spreading effectively.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#82: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:29:49 PM

Wow. It's over 9 million hits even adding (-anime -manga) to the search parameters.

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#83: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:31:38 PM

That must be one big fan-term.

In short, it dwarfs most of our pre-existing titles, so you can't really call it obscure.

edited 14th Jul '11 7:32:11 PM by chihuahua0

revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#84: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:34:24 PM

And it is over 8 million hits with (-anime -manga -japan -japanese). So Japan doesn't have much to do with its usage.

EDIT: Just "tsundere" hits 17 million and (-japan -japanese) gives 14.4 million. About half of the results are not associated with anime, manga, japan, etc.

edited 14th Jul '11 7:37:49 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#85: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:45:04 PM

People don't necessarily conveniently use the term "anime" or "manga" (or "Japanese") every time they discuss a work that happens to be anime or manga. So these Google results aren't necessarily meaningful.

I do think the Japanese were the conceptual codifiers (if you will), and I think the term is definitely starting to make its way into western culture.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#86: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:53:22 PM

But using those terms as sorting parameter is somewhat helpful, because it means that none of them even appear on the same page as "tsundere". Is it proof positive? No, but no one is claiming that it is.

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#87: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:54:19 PM

[up]

Right, almost any site which is going to host discussions on the subjects will have "anime" or "manga" somewhere on the page

revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#88: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:01:12 PM

I didn't mean it to be proof. Just providing a scale of the usage of the term.

One last search (-japan -japanese -anime -manga -visual -novel -review -blog) still shows 6.5 million, although the results are of poor quality (the last 4 terms are more important as filters).

EDIT: Ok, this is just weird. 17 million for just "tsundere" but 20 million for excluding the word "trope". What?

edited 14th Jul '11 8:04:20 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#89: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:12:05 PM

...by the way, does Kuudere have an acceptable English language redirect yet?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#90: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:14:25 PM

[up] Two. Neither is descriptive enough for a main name, but they're good redirects.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:15:02 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#91: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:30:15 PM

Hey, as long as we still have an article for Tsundere that we can link when it is most clearly applicable and appropriate to the specific cultural context of the work I don't have much invested in what else is split off from the trope to make a sister trope, super trope or whatever.

Just keep in mind though, that like so many other words, it has come to have several different usages, and if you are coming up with a Western equivalent term it might be easier to have a different term for each of the several meanings. Looking at various sites, I see...

1) Tsundere as a relationship where initial hostility gradually gives way to affection (though not necessarily romance)

2) Tsundere as a character that often presents a combative, prickly attitude toward others but is actually kind and nice on the inside

3) The definition we are using, which places emphasis on a character with strongly alternating moods swinging back in forth, often motivated by equal strong but conflicting reasons for liking and disliking a person.

4) Some combination of all of the above.

You might also want to examine the many tropes already listed in the Tsundere article and consider how they relate to what you are trying to accomplish.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:32:53 PM by Auxdarastrix

FrodoGoofballCoTV from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#92: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:31:35 PM

for me, "Hot and Cold personality" would mean basically the same as Tsundere.

Except that it would actually make the trope slightly broader, since it would not necessarily sugggest "lover interest" or gender specific.

revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#93: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:33:54 PM

[up][up]Wouldn't #1 be Defrosting Ice Queen and #2 be Jerk with a Heart of Gold? I don't see the problem.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:34:18 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#94: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:34:11 PM

[up][up]Tsundere, as currently defined on our website, isn't necessarily a Love Interest either, though it's more or less typical for a Tsundere character to be so.

[up] A Defrosting Ice Queen can be either "actively" hostile/"violent" or adopt a "passive" emotionless/cold front.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:36:03 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#95: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:35:07 PM

[up] yep, we already have 1 and 2 as separate tropes with English titles.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#96: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:36:00 PM

By the way, for comparison, "runs hot and cold" -tvtropes (Just to keep out own discussions out of any of this) stops returning results (not counting omitted results) on page 55 because you really cannot completely trust all the numbers Google throws up. (546,000 stated results)

'tsundere -trope -manga -japan -japanese -anime -manga -blog -visual -novel' gives 6,580,000 stated results and fills all the 100 pages Google actually ever coughs up.

Just thought I'd throw those up there, and sorry to be a bit late with doing so.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:36:29 PM by Balmung

AngryScientist Nostalgia from Russia with Love Since: Nov, 2009
Nostalgia
#97: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:38:40 PM

It's not fanspeak, but it is used in those fandoms more than anywhere else.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#98: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:39:29 PM

"run* hot and cold" -tvtropes (The asterix is there because being a verb it tends to change depending on placement and the asterix makes it count all tenses) gets 40 million+ hits.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
revolution11 from A State of Confusion Since: Feb, 2011
#99: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:44:23 PM

Add -temperature and -laundry and the results fall to 23.7 million.

EDIT: -water removes another 10 million. Removing cars, trucks, and engines reduces it to 9 million.

40 million as a usage of the trope is nowhere close to the truth. This is used more as plumbing terminology.

[down]6.5 million including your terms as filters.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:49:38 PM by revolution11

Think Of The Ewoks.....
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#100: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:46:49 PM

Throw in -water and -weather and it goes down to "about 11,000,000 results" and taking off sports knocks off another 3 million. Evidently, it's also a sports term. An a bajillion other things.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:52:45 PM by Balmung

AlternativeTitles: Tsundere
25th Jul '11 8:07:28 PM

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Note: This is only for searchable redirects, not a rename.

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