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neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#126: Jul 14th 2011 at 5:40:56 AM

"As for physical bullying, well that's what jumping the bully in the parking lot at night is for." - Mark Von Lewis

Issue is, what if said bully pretends to have been an innocent victim just to get you in trouble? Never underestimate the manipulativeness of bullies.

Obviously, we need a better sense of justice in schools, but things don't get this bad from teacher negligence alone. The severity of bullying these days reflects on the failure of society to make kids into morally decent people.

As bad a problem as it is, it's perhaps a symptom of a problem that may be even worse...

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#127: Jul 14th 2011 at 5:51:04 AM

[up][up]

I prefer the tactic of going to somebody in authority, who is diligent and effective at dealing with the problem, as that works for those without friends, or skills at fighting.

[up]

And that's another reason not to go with the fighting method.

edited 14th Jul '11 5:52:04 AM by blueharp

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#128: Jul 14th 2011 at 5:53:35 AM

[up]If you've got an administration that will take action that extends beyond suspending both parties or ignoring the problem; sure. Just remember that they can't be with you 24/7.

Let's not even get into the flak you'll get for being a snitch.

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#129: Jul 14th 2011 at 5:59:27 AM

Yes, I agree that the administration does need to deal with the problem, and that the code you refer to is an issue that also needs to be addressed.

That's why every anti-bullying program I've seen takes steps to deal with both.

edited 14th Jul '11 5:59:53 AM by blueharp

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#130: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:01:11 AM

Like I said in another thread, the closest schools have come to combating the issues are the numerous zero-tolerance programs. But suspending a kid for a shove, of a butter knife in his pickup aren't going to do anything.

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#131: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:05:06 AM

Nope, many schools have actually done other things, believe it or not. They just don't get publicized because unlike zero-tolerance, it tends to work instead of lead to blow ups that the media leaps to cover.

Would you like some links to anti-bullying programs, or can you find them on your own?

edited 14th Jul '11 6:05:25 AM by blueharp

LoveHappiness Nihilist Hippie Since: Dec, 2010
Nihilist Hippie
#132: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:06:17 AM

Provide links. I'm curious.

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#133: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:09:30 AM

Try the Olweus Bullying Prevention Program.

I'd give more, but I've got to head out shortly, and that's one that comes to mind. It really does concentrate on a whole-school approach.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#134: Jul 14th 2011 at 6:32:45 AM

"And when they grow up, it is for some reason perfectly acceptable and expected to not hold anything they did against them." - Beholderess

Now I am curious as to what you base this on...

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#135: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:28:08 AM

Thread Hop here, but the reason I feel that the "teaches valuable survival skills!" theory is bogus is that the Survival Training™ is not applied to everyone, nor is it applied equally amongst those who do get bullied.

Many students go through their school careers with very little or relatively minor bullying. Others are constantly harassed and ostracized for their entire developmental period. The fact that the former group manages to get by as adults just fine without the abusive treatment indicates that it is by no means a necessary part of growing up.

Even if you could identify the psychological makeup of a person who does need something akin to that type of treatment to deal with things later in life, the very last people I would trust to be qualified to make that kind of assessment would be minors of the same age who have a proclivity for dishing it out.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#136: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:35:54 AM

Meh, I blame school for why I have such a thick skin. Got picked on, got over it and learned to be an asshole back, went on to be a relatively successful adult.

Obviously it doesn't work that way for everyone, but I guess I just woke up one day and realized that the best option was to dig in my heels and tell people to fuck off.

MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#137: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:43:37 AM

I was bullied between the 6th class and 8th class, almost exclusively verbally. The bullies, a daring, charismatic, popular, yet completely rotten boy (who is now a drug dealer, by the way) and his 6-7 cronies took every possible opportunity and found every possible reason to make fun of me. They couldn't be properly punished, since the leader wasn't afraid of any teacher, and I was repeatedly told to ignore them. It didn't work at all - they knew that I was bound to break down at one moment, so the bullying sessions were progressively more intensive until I broke down, which was their goal. Between classes, I couldn't get a single moment of peace. Sometimes I reacted violently to their bullying, which almost got me expelled, and they were being punished minimally or not at all.

It led to my nervous breakdown, which caused me to attempt suicide several times, and that sparked a chain of events including a monthly therapy in a closed-type mental clinic, drinking antidepressives which ruined my metabolism for a good period of two years, several of my family members also falling into depression which, combined, eventually led to the breakup of my family.

I can honestly say that those were the worst years of my life. I have mostly got over it, and am now a lot more confident and stable, but I can't say that there are no scars remaining. I can be really nervous and violent in stressful situations (some say borderline Ax-Crazy), and any time somebody makes fun of me leads to an instant tantrum. If somebody tried to make fun of me with the same intensity and persistence as back then, I can say for certain that I may be able to murder them.

edited 14th Jul '11 7:44:02 AM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#138: Jul 14th 2011 at 7:55:11 AM

I do know that schools differ in how they handle issues like fighting. Mine was pretty strict, but cops didn't get involved. There were a couple of fights, and in all cases every involved party got a hefty suspension - Drunk Scribblerian
Indeed. I was bullied up until around 7th grade, when I finally snapped and tackled the dude abusing me into the floor. Then I used nepotism* to go back to class while he got suspended. Of course, the problem is that most victims don't have nepotism on their side.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Schitzo HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE from Akumajou Dracula Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE
#139: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:02:25 AM

THREAD HOP

in my experience, it was solved best through violence. It was the fastest way, and it actually literally saved my life a few times.

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#140: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:14:21 AM

Then this one finally managed to hurt one of her bullies, she got suspended. Granted, it was understandable, considering the circumstances, but still left a bitter taste.

Another bully learned better after I came dangerously close to strangling her. Which was a...pleasant experience for me,for finally scare her like that, and I try not to think of it too hard.

But most of the time, they run way too fast for this one to catch.

Anyway, thinking logically, this one agrees that teaching kids to cope with bullying is probably the most practical solution. On an emotional level, however, it feels unjust to this one that for some reason it's the victims, not the bullies who are expected to change their behaviour, while bullies get no trouble whatsoever. Again, as if their behaviour is permissible.

It might be mighty stupid to leave "The key is under the rug" note on the door, and the owner of the house should be instructed not to do so. However, it does not in any way means that the thieves should be allowed to walk away scott-free, or that the fault is anyone's but theirs.

But again, this one is not unbiased, and this topic is a Berserk Button to her.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:49:09 AM by Beholderess

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#141: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:14:31 AM

The only time anything got physical the guy who did it to me was suspended. I guess it helps that I was generally considered a nice guy/known in school for not being violent.

That said, being teased didn't cause me to develop a hard skin, it just lead me to getting more confussed about when people are/aren't joking tongue

Pleasent?

edited 14th Jul '11 8:15:13 AM by JosefBugman

Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#142: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:16:50 AM

Pleasent?
Umm, was in directed to this one?

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#143: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:18:52 AM

Yarp.

I mean was it that you thought that if he DID do something physical you could get him in trouble?

Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#144: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:23:18 AM

No. It was this one who came quite close to strangling the (female) bully. Please accept my apologies for possible confusion.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:28:55 AM

Ah ok, I was a little confused too. I thought you mean you started to get off on being strangled, and that scared the shit out of them and made them run off with you chasing them, asking to be strangled more. tongue

JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#146: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:29:16 AM

Ohhhhhh, I do apoligise!

Though that is still a triffle odd. And thats coming from a guy who once wore tights in Edinburgh smile

MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#147: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:36:59 AM

I greatly sympathize with Beholderess on this subject, since I can easily find myself in her experiences.

Anyway, as for a solution for helping kids cope with bullying - I think that they should get a free hand in using violence to defend themselves. The "ignore them" advice should burn. Bullying, both physical and verbal, should be punished more harshly than now, but I'm afraid that harmless childish pranks could be confused with proper bullying and be punished too harshly. There should be some phychological preparation for eventual bullying, but I have no idea how that could be implemented.

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#148: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:49:42 AM

Edited the post to clarify it. Again, please accept my apologies for the confusion.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#149: Jul 14th 2011 at 8:57:03 AM

Being bullied at school for my Hair-Trigger Temper is probably one of the reasons I have a much more even keel now. My blood still rises from time to time, but I don't see red any more. (Well, I never literally saw red.)

I simply didn't rise to provocation.

edited 14th Jul '11 8:57:18 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
C0mraid from Here and there Since: Aug, 2010
#150: Jul 14th 2011 at 9:46:06 AM

One issue that annoys me is that just because a school isn't known for bullying doesn't mean it doesn't happen there. I was first bullied at 5 years old, and after a few months of absoloutly nothing being done by any of the staff my parents took me out of the school.

A couple of years later a guy I later became good friends with starts going to that school. He gets bullied by same person, in a worse way than I was. The Head teacher refused to do anything at all unroll a few parents threatened to involve the police. Of course the victim still changes school anyway.

The problem I have is that this school is frequently praised in the local paper, the Headteacher especially is well regarded. But she was acting Head when I was there and I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed. It had an outstanding Ofsted report then and it has one now.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

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