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Too many tropes being labeled "Medium-specific"?

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Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Apr 4th 2013 at 5:28:57 PM

No, TRS isn't necessary. I just took out the bit about "in anime and manga" so the description isn't medium specific anymore.

A run through YKTTW to gather examples would probably be good, so would adding it to Tropes Needing Examples. (I've done the latter.)

edited 4th Apr '13 5:38:53 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A
There is no Planet B
Apr 4th 2013 at 5:53:14 PM

[up] Ok, thank you, and I'll do the former.

EDIT: Link to ykttw Fist of Enthusiasm

edited 10th Apr '13 8:09:55 PM by XFllo

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A
There is no Planet B
Apr 10th 2013 at 5:17:53 AM

I've caught another trope. Finger-Suck Healing started with "In Japanese media" — I took the liberty to delete it. I think it's universal, and some of the examples are from the West.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Apr 10th 2013 at 9:11:25 AM

It's a form of commonly socially acceptable cannibalism throughout the world. Well, if you want to define it as that... Hardly Japanese-specific.

Check out my fanfiction!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Apr 10th 2013 at 9:13:52 AM

Finger-Suck Healing, a Japanese trope. Ha Ha Ha No.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Apr 13th 2013 at 5:35:36 AM

Death Is Cheap says it is common in comics. Is that true for comics regardless of genre or only for Super Hero comics? (Yes, I know the trope is also known as comicbook death, but I don't think that should stop us from mentioning which comicbook genre that inspired that name.)

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A
There is no Planet B
Apr 15th 2013 at 9:02:01 AM

[up] Hmm, I'm not that much into comics, so I wouldn't know. I associate it mainly with sci-fi and fantasy TV shows.


Fond Memories That Could Have Been had a subtle line saying "that the trope is appearing with increased frequency in Anime dramas" at the beginning of the article. I've deleted it because I think's it's misleading.

By the way, where does this amine/manga/Japanese specific plague come from? ;-)

edited 15th Apr '13 9:02:18 AM by XFllo

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Apr 15th 2013 at 9:03:57 AM

We have plenty of anime/manga fans here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Apr 17th 2013 at 1:20:15 AM

Kay Fabe is really bad in this. Claims it's a wrestling trope, and I saw several potholes in other medium. Start a dedicated thread on it, and if so, where? Not the only problem by far.

edited 17th Apr '13 1:20:22 AM by spacemarine50

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Apr 17th 2013 at 1:24:05 AM

Kayfabe is a wrestling thing. What are these other potholes?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MyriamD from Southwest Quebec
Apr 17th 2013 at 3:32:32 AM

[up] Kay Fabe's last two paragraphs expand the Kay Fabe 'trope' to other media, so presumably the links in question are for instances when someone upholds the Masquerade outside of the parameters of a piece of media and never, ever breaks character, which certainy does sound like a trope. One of the examples given is one of the Doctor Who Doctors being The Doctor in any public appearance, and I could add the fact that Mr. Rogers himself lived and breathed Mister Rogers' Neighborhood to the point of regulating his lifestyle to stay at 143 lbs, AKA 'I Love You' and answering all of his fan mail, every day. Actually, that might be a subversion along the lines of 'there is no Masquerade', but that'd still be worth documenting. Is there a non-wrestling, not In-Universe version of Kay Fabe already? I suppose that's a really good example of why we shouldn't write a trope that restrictively, but the actual Kay Fabe page is more like Useful Notes, isn't it?

Apr 18th 2013 at 4:11:41 PM

While reading through the YKTTW Guidelines, I noticed that they actually seem to encourage tagging tropes as region-specific:

Also pay in mind that a trope can be region-specific (a trope used in works only or mostly in certain countries or regions). For an example, there might be a trope exclusive to Romanian animation.

Fortunately, it's a bit less encouraging of medium-specificity.

edited 18th Apr '13 4:13:00 PM by Prfnoff

m8e from Sweden Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
Jul 31st 2013 at 12:14:44 PM

What's up with Abandoned Laboratory? It only have video game examples and the decription seem to limit it to video games for no reason at all.

edited 31st Jul '13 12:16:35 PM by m8e

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Jul 31st 2013 at 12:19:14 PM

It's possibly a setting trope with video game properties, but I don't know.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Aug 27th 2013 at 1:40:20 AM

Back from the Brink is written from an entirely videogame-centric perspective, but is a pure plot trope.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Aug 27th 2013 at 9:49:23 AM

And while it does have mostly video game examples, it has a bunch non-video game examples as well. It doesn't look like it's meant to be video game specific either, what with mentioning a Real Life example in the description. I think it's just narrowly written, not narrowly defined.

Check out my fanfiction!
Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:00:27 AM

A thing that came up in YKTTW: the X Episode pattern (see discussion).

I think it's harmful in most cases, since it steers the way the trope is interpreted towards parts of serialised works (ie, episodes), and thus can cause people to forget to check for non-episodic media. But I have a hard time getting that point across.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:03:04 AM

Are you saying that that YKTTW should cover chapters as well, not just episodes?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:20:47 AM

No, I'm saying it should cover every camping trip. Three Men in a Boat was mentioned early on, and that's an entire novel. Movies should also be included, even if the camping trip takes the entire film (like possibly The Blair Witch Project). And so on.

Now, these can be grandfathered in via Tropes Are Flexible, but I think Tropes Are Flexible should only be a guideline for adding examples, not when deciding on a name.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:24:31 AM

Camping Trip and Camping Episode sound like different tropes to me. The former only about the trip, the second about how it fits into the larger scheme of the series.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Noaqiyeum it/they from the October Country Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
it/they
Oct 2nd 2013 at 1:24:30 PM

Most such episodes don't "fit into" any larger framework, though. It's just a generic premise that easily accomodates different casts.

I draw night shapes
Oct 2nd 2013 at 1:54:53 PM

Yeah, look at some trope examples:

Beach Episode - it's a bunch of characters hanging out on the beach Halloween Episode - a story set at a specific time

There are cases where I think X Episode is good, like

Noir Episode - there is a shift to a certain form, and then back to default

And then we have the cases where X Episode really is justified:

Bottle Episode - cheap episode to keep the season within budget Recap Episode - tell what happened earlier

Noaqiyeum it/they from the October Country Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
it/they
Oct 2nd 2013 at 3:06:08 PM

[up] Exactly. Another one is Lower-Deck Episode, which could go either way - I know there are complete stand-alone works that fit the format, but I'm not sure if they already have a trope of their own.

And The Doll Episode, which... I'm not sure why we have that one, since it's pretty much just an elaboration of Creepy Doll in X Episode form.

edited 2nd Oct '13 3:11:44 PM by Noaqiyeum

I draw night shapes
Oct 3rd 2013 at 11:21:29 AM

Lower-Deck Episode could perhaps be named Lower Deck Interlude, but that might give the impression that the episode or story isn't capable of standing on its own, so I think that one's okay.

Note that I'm not advocating renaming existing tropes here, but something to look out for when creating new tropes, or perhaps when going over a trope for other reasons.

Oct 3rd 2013 at 11:40:34 AM

If we want to get technical here there are a few different definitions for "episode"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/episode

a : the part of an ancient Greek tragedy between two choric songs

b : a developed situation that is integral to but separable from a continuous narrative ; an incident

c : one of a series of loosely connected stories or scenes

sure some media are more obviously "episodic", and it's a term that's used on TV. But if you look at the examples on these pages I think it's pretty clear that people are smart enough to figure out that an episode is just a singular part of a story that can be separated from the other parts. People will just use words like "act", "chapter", "issue" (for comics) in place of it if they want to differentiate it from a televised or serial online medium. And they already pretty much do since there are plenty of other types of media on those episode pages.

I also agree with Septimus that a work that takes place completely in a setting (like Camping Trip) is a different trope all on it's own. The distinction is that that's a setting might be used for the majority or the entirety of the work. Whereas for these "episode" tropes it's used for filler or as a breather story to either develop characters or take a break from the main plot (or sometimes an excuse to expand the plot). Putting in examples of works that take place completely in that setting would be redundant. Because the setting in those "episode" tropes is used sparingly. It's not something that usually happens, it's exceptional.

edited 3rd Oct '13 12:03:29 PM by xanderiskander


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