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TheMageofFire A Blessed Life Relationship Status: I want you to want me
A Blessed Life
Feb 27th 2019 at 10:15:35 PM

Ok having actually watched the episode now I do have a bit more to add.

So I was right in assuming the feat of EXE destroying the net was taking from the anime. Can't say I feel good about that being taken into consideration for the reasons I described in earlier posts. Nor do I feel the speed feat is right to use not just because the way things work in the manga is contradictory to how it works in the game/anime, but because EXE is not fighting in the digital world but the real world, where he's way weaker.

Whereas Geo can operate in the real world without getting nerfed. On top of that, Geo's forms weren't taken into consideration, and I still don't get the idea where they assume that Geo came from the end of his timeline for the crossover. That's never stated in said crossover, nor is it said that EXE could handle Noise and EM Waves because EXE was never exposed to those conditions.

Like with all disagreements its not like what I argue will cause the end result to be changed but its best just to get these thoughts out of the way instead of lingering on them.

God-Shattering Star
Feb 27th 2019 at 10:48:53 PM

[up][up]Unfortunately I feel like Mordred isn't going far here. He got his butt whooped by Saber in canon, and his Noble Phantasm is just "Sword Beam". At least Nero has a bunch of weird abilities, like extra lives and the Reality Marble that makes thing work in her favor, which might interact with other powers in unique ways. Plus if we're counting Jeanne then she apparently has a bunch of broken stuff (though I couldn't really get a handle on what exactly they were by watching Apocrypha, it seemed very vague).

Are we counting Alters? Do they have different abilities?

Edited by Moth13 on Feb 27th 2019 at 1:49:29 PM

ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Feb 27th 2019 at 11:27:10 PM

I maintain Mordred would win on account of I want her to.

I don't count Jeanne as a saberface, but her referee-esque ruler powers require a Holy Grail war to be ongoing don't they? Would a Death Battle count as a Holy Grail War? That's actually a good question.

And then there's Mysterious Heroine X who specifically exists to hunt saberfaces although arguably isn't very good at it.

Alters definitely count as their distinct thing. Heck, with Lancer Artoria Alter we have Alters of Alters...

Edited by ShirowShirow on Feb 27th 2019 at 2:27:59 PM

Bleye knows Sabers.
EpicBleye I'm Tamamortified! from the closet Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
I'm Tamamortified!
Feb 27th 2019 at 11:34:44 PM

I know everyone is sick of Fate/Whatever but... Saberface Battle Royale?

We never see Artoria at her fullest strength, so I doubt that Artoria with Avalon could be used. With that in mind, we do have some fun options on who could be the winner.

If we look at this list of saberfaces as defined by Fate/Grand Order we can see who even qualifies.

To make things easier for all of us, I'll only be mentioning important Saberfaces, ones that could reasonably win, or servants that are particularly funny.

First and foremost, Saber Alter. She is a solid candidate since she is just as strong as Artoria from Fate/Stay Night, but she can also spam Excalibur as Excalibur Morgan. This makes her a very strong contender for winning a Saberface battle royale, but it is important to note that she does not have avalon and does canonically lose her battle.

Mordred would be a potential candidate, but she also very likely isn't as strong as even normal Artoria. Unlikely to win a battle royale.

Nero would also be super unlikely to win. While she does win the holy grail war in Fate/EXTRA, she also doesn't have any particularly stand-out abilities that put her to the level of Artoria. The best she's got is a reality marble that's kind of strong, but not Excalibur strong. Next she's got an ability called Thrice Setting Sun that will allow her to come back to life three times. So, she really isn't in the running. That is... until you take Saber Venus (who looks like this, btw. NSFW warning.) into account. Here she has her normal spirit origin, enhanced by the Sword of Mars (Altera's noble phantasm) and blessed by Venus. In this form she also slays the white titan, and is undoubtedly one of the strongest servants in the entire series lore. She doesn't have many specific feats besides that, but she's virtually invincible and stupidly strong.

I'm not even going to bother going over their swimsuit versions, because I have no idea how on earth I'd calculate their strengths. Fate/GO just sorta put them into swimsuits (and in Saber Alter Summer's case, gave her a gun and also a motorcycle that rides on water) and didn't give them any strength feats. But let's just assume that they're as strong as their base versions, and likely some degree weaker since their spirit origins are altered and not in their optimal classes.

A very key player here, however, is Artoria Lancer. An alternate version of Artoria that wields the lance a tiny tower named Rhongomyniad. In the Singularity where a version of her is the main antagonist, the lance is able to level towns and create massive craters with ease, and was able to fire off several times with no issues. Granted, that version of her was barely Artoria and closer to a goddess, so we can assume that the actual servant version is a lot weaker. Importantly, she is also a version of Artoria that was allowed to grow up and mature.

Next up we have Okita who... isn't that important. Okita Alter, on the other hand, is the more important factor. You see, she has an "Anti-World" NP and she's just as strong as the original Okita without the original's drawback of never being able to do anything cool. She's insanely powerful, especially since she's a counterforce guardian. However, she does lower endurance, mana, and luck than Artoria and most of the other Sabers I mentioned, meaning that she's a bit of a glass cannon in this fight.

Speaking of glass cannons, we also have Jeanne d'Arc. Normal Jeanne is tanky as hell, while Jeanne Alter is the exact opposite. Jeanne doesn't have much in the way of offense so she would likely have trouble finishing anyone off. Jeanne Alter, meanwhile, has a skill to briefly make herself invulnerable and also insanely high attack and a Noble Phantasm that prevents the opponent from buffing themselves and also deals a ton of damage. Of course, she also has the defenses of a paper tissue so she probably isn't going to be doing much. Oh, and then there's Jeanne d'Arc Santa Lily Alter, a version of Jeanne Alter that was turned into a kid who became santa. She isn't actually all that strong, but she exists.

But last but not least, we have Mysterious Heroine X. While it's very tough to decipher her true identity, clever people will notice she is actually a version of Artoria from the servant universe in disguise! Most importantly, she is specifically strong against Saberface enemies... meaning she beats every other Saberface listed. Not to mention, she also dual wields Excalibur and Excalibur Morgan in a full-on assault on her enemies (and does extra damage to Saberfaces too). She can stun fields of enemies (after a small delay) and even make herself invincible for a brief period of time. To top it all off, she does stuff like saving ancient kingdoms and fending off universal invaders so casually that she doesn't even remember them! She is the perfect Anti-Saber Weapon.

Now you might be wondering, what about Mysterious Heroine X Alter, the perfect Anti-Anti-Saber weapon? Yes, she was indeed made specifically to beat Mysterious Heroine X. However, in the one fight between them MHX was purposefully holding back when she lost. On top of that, as a saberface, MHXA would still be weak against MHX. Plus, while she can heal herself, her reasoning isn't entirely sound as a Berserker and she has no way to make herself invulnerable to oncoming attacks.

Now there are a handful of saberfaces I didn't mention, and that's all because they either don't matter or don't have the feats to really make an impact.note 

In conclusion, Mysterious Heroine X is the most likely to win a Saberface battle royale. She dual wields Excalibur and Excalibur Morgan, can make herself invincible, can stun fields of enemies, has a history of fighting off invaders, and most importantly is specifically strong against Saberfaces, who make up the entire battle royale. On top of everything, she is the only Saberface with a Noble Phantasm rank of EX, putting it on a level far beyond anyone else's. Also, she has the coolest outfit.

Edited by EpicBleye on Feb 28th 2019 at 3:39:55 PM

"There's no room for new goodies in THIS gacha game!" ~Tamamo-no-Mae
ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Feb 27th 2019 at 11:39:54 PM

I'm gonna defer to Bleye on this one because that nerd clearly knows what's up.

(I still like Mordred.)

Bleye knows Sabers.
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Feb 27th 2019 at 11:41:06 PM

And this is why at least one reason why Lancelot is my go-too homie.

He hunts down Saberfaces while not being one.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:41:17 AM

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
JRads47 Father I cannot click book from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
Father I cannot click book
Feb 27th 2019 at 11:46:04 PM

[up]Takashi Takeuchi will remember that

How am I supposed to know the Joker is insane if he doesn't have a 𝒟𝒶𝓂𝒶𝑔𝑒𝒹 tattoo
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Meh-meh!?
Feb 28th 2019 at 12:05:18 AM

and I still don't get the idea where they assume that Geo came from the end of his timeline for the crossover. That's never stated in said crossover, nor is it said that EXE could handle Noise and EM Waves because EXE was never exposed to those conditions.
I think the timeline thing was interpreted from implicit details, i.e. the fact that in the crossover Geo's Mega Buster is shaped as it is in Star Force 3 rather than being Omega-Xis's head as it is in the first two games.

Still a bit of a leap in logic but I see why they'd take it that way.

she/her
TheMageofFire A Blessed Life Relationship Status: I want you to want me
A Blessed Life
Feb 28th 2019 at 12:13:13 AM

Truthfully I never really even noticed a difference in the busters until you mentioned it just now.

I'd chalk that up to just quick sprite reusing on Capcom's part since that crossover was pretty lazy in general more than concrete proof of the timeline placement.

God-Shattering Star
Feb 28th 2019 at 1:46:39 AM

[up] x 6 IIRC one of the databooks mentions that Artoria/Altria regained the strength she possessed in-life when Rin became her Master in Unlimited Blade Works... though that statement is flawed since being manifested as a pseudo-Servant gave her certain abilities it's unlikely she possessed in-life, and she possessed an arsenal of mystic weapons aside from Excalibur, such as Rhongomyniad — which she wielded several times without it causing "a certain part" of her body to grow, so I don't know where Fate/Grand Order gets that from.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 28th 2019 at 2:02:28 AM

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Feb 28th 2019 at 5:52:29 AM

Reading that rundown of Sabers has made me angrier at Fate than I already am by default

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
VeryMelon SUPER SOMETHING ELSE
SUPER SOMETHING ELSE
Feb 28th 2019 at 5:54:26 AM

A Saberface battle royal wouldn't be terrible interesting to have as an episode. It's not like how every Megaman has their own tools and powers, each Artoria is the same person with the same Noble Phantasms and fighting skills. The biggest difference would be which one of them uses a sword or lance. And all of that is ignoring how only 1 version of the character even has feats, so you'd be forced to scale the others to her because...same person. Lame.

Now, just Artoria versus Nero is fine, even if it's obvious Artoria would take it.

Edited by VeryMelon on Mar 3rd 2019 at 3:11:55 PM

Feb 28th 2019 at 5:59:09 AM

I know everyone is sick of Fate/Whatever but... Saberface Battle Royale?

... -eye twitch-

We never see Artoria at her fullest strength, so I doubt that Artoria with Avalon could be used. With that in mind, we do have some fun options on who could be the winner.

If we look at this list...

(8 paragraphs later)

Are we counting Alters? Do they have different abilities?

IRC one of the databooks mentions that Artoria/Altria

Reading that rundown of Sabers has made me angrier at Fate than I already am by default

Grrrrrrrrrrrah. Aaaarrgh! Grah! -incomprehensible grumbling-

Edited by Soble on Feb 28th 2019 at 6:10:20 AM

-deep breath- FIGH-TIIIIIIIING GOOOOOOOOLLLD!!!!
LozMN Makispouse from Otonokizaka High Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Makispouse
Feb 28th 2019 at 6:49:51 AM

This is a really cool idea. Would Grima get involved, I wonder?

I would guess no. I'd imagine that Grima would be mentioned, as it's pretty integral to two people's stories, but I doubt it would be applied in the fight. And honestly, even if it was, I'm not sure it'd do anything but screw Robin over given that Marth, Roy, Lucina, and now Chrom are swarming that BR with dragon slayers.

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Feb 28th 2019 at 6:57:05 AM

Fun dumb question, who would be a good matchup for the Ultima Avatar?

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Demongodofchaos2 Best Dad from Eldritch Nightmareland Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Best Dad
Feb 28th 2019 at 8:26:08 AM

@Soble: that comes across as needlessly overreactive and rather toxic.

Just saying.

Watch Symphogear
Feb 28th 2019 at 8:30:19 AM

[up]Yes, but let him keep it up! It's rather funny.

FlutterFire Ugh, please don't make me talk about my feelings from the Dragon Lands Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Ugh, please don't make me talk about my feelings
Feb 28th 2019 at 8:42:06 AM

I'm happy Boomstick said "Alt-F4" to delete EXE and now "Ctrl-Alt-Del"

Is this another part of pony friendship? Telling each other what you learned all the time?
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Feb 28th 2019 at 8:44:51 AM

Actually it'd probably be difficult to find a good match for the Avatar because they have the Armageddon spell and also the Black Sword of Script Kill Mostly Anything but aren't themselves immune to instant death

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
EpicBleye I'm Tamamortified! from the closet Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
I'm Tamamortified!
Feb 28th 2019 at 8:54:11 AM

A Saberface battle royal wouldn't be terrible interesting to have as an episode. It's not like how every Megaman has their own tools and powers, each Artoria is the same person with the same Noble Phantasms and fighting skills.
Did... did you not read my rundown? Most saberfaces have completely different feats, skills, and Noble Phantasms from each other. This is just wrong.

Besides, I worked hard on it at 2am when I was supposed to be doing hw 😢 everyone plz read it

IIRC one of the databooks mentions that Artoria/Altria regained the strength she possessed in-life when Rin became her Master in Unlimited Blade Works... though that statement is flawed since being manifested as a pseudo-Servant gave her certain abilities it's unlikely she possessed in-life
The official lore is that summoned servants are never as strong as they were in real life, as of Fate/GO (Grand servants are potentially an exception, maybe). Whether that's internally consistent or not is a different matter, but it's the current lore.

Edited by EpicBleye on Feb 28th 2019 at 12:02:26 PM

"There's no room for new goodies in THIS gacha game!" ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Vespa That wasn’t Bannanice from Digital Limbo Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
That wasn’t Bannanice
Feb 28th 2019 at 9:42:02 AM

I see Fate is being talked about here again, so while I will once again shill for Noctis vs Gilgamesh to happen, I do want to propose another match that I've thought about but haven't looked super into: Hermione Granger vs Rin Tohsaka.

Off the top of my head, I want to say Rin has more readily lethal combat abilities (I don't remember if Hermione was ever willing or able to use the unforgivable curses), but I'm assuming Hermione has more screwy stuff at her disposal.

Edited by Vespa on Feb 28th 2019 at 12:42:26 PM

"The effort you put forth to anything transcends yourself, for there is no futility even in death." -Monty Oum
Feb 28th 2019 at 9:52:46 AM

[up][up][up]they also have nothing notable for speed, I think. So you have an all powerful god of magic, who can't react any faster than an ordinary human.

Edited by qwigly on Feb 28th 2019 at 10:00:03 AM

Feb 28th 2019 at 10:09:37 AM

[up][up][up]I read your entire post, Bleye. It was quite lovely.waii

[up][up]Visually very fitting, but I know nothing about Noctis and his feats.

Also, is it just me, or are Nasuverse and Harry Potter mages on somewhat similar tier?

FergardStratoavis Caerbannog Represent from Leiston Fortress Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Caerbannog Represent
Feb 28th 2019 at 10:26:35 AM

Potterverse Mages are largely powerless without wands, a few exceptions aside. Nasuverse Mages, on top of having more destructive power, can just Reinforce and come in for a kill the old-fashioned way. While there's lots of variety on Potterverse spells and they have good combo potential (landing Petrificus Totalus or Stupefy on an opponent makes them a sitting duck for other spells), they likely can't take an old-fashioned left straight.

I don't really know how Tohsaka's Jewel Magic works, but from what I recall she throws the damn things like they're shuriken in some cases.

smart words go here
MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Feb 28th 2019 at 10:27:17 AM

and she possessed an arsenal of mystic weapons aside from Excalibur, such as Rhongomyniad — which she wielded several times without it causing "a certain part" of her body to grow, so I don't know where Fate/Grand Order gets that from.
From what I gathered, it's less Rhongomyniad itself and more that she took it up after losing Caliburn (her original aging-stopper) instead of Excalibur and Avalon (the latter being her newer aging-stopper), i.e. Artoria Lancer is what happens if Artoria never comes into possession of any of her aging-stopping weapons for long enough that her body is allowed to undergo its natural maturation process.

Bear in mind that I never understood why Caliburn and Avalon's immortality powers also stopped their wielder's aging completely instead of simply preventing the onset of old age. There's simply no plausible Watsonian justification, just the Doylist one of Nasu wanting to keep Artoria at around Shirou's age when he and the rest of his crew made FSN.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 28th 2019 at 9:28:25 PM

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.

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