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Don't know enough about Boruto's dad to judge Roshi's opposition
I'm disappointed we didn't get a "Where's the laser? Ask the police." sequence.
According to the episode commentary, we got Ultron vs Sigma over Ultron vs Braniac because:
On top of that, they’re to open to doing Ultron vs Braniac down the line.
Apparently Braniac has been boosted to eldritch abomination levels in recent stories where the Braniacs Superman has been fighting throughout various reboots and years were just drones
It’s a Convergence thing or a pre-Covergence thing I think
I think people have forgotten that there was a time when being a ninja in Naruto meant more than throwing super powered punches and massive energy blasts around, and that Jiraiya comes from that time period.
Sure, Roshi may have more raw power than Jiraiya, but Jiraiya is not the type of fighter to just match power against power. He likes to go to ground, while analyzing his opponent's capabilities, to the point where Jiraiya even can hide himself in a pocket dimension (a toad's stomach) just to catch a breather. And Roshi, for all his strengths, is definitely not one of the Dragon Ball characters capable of breaking down dimensional barriers. Nor has Roshi shown any particular skill at playing cat-and-mouse games - while he wouldn't be inept, it's safe to say Roshi would have trouble keeping up with Jiraiya. Remember, Jiraiya has hidden from a being with multiple independent bodies and linked super senses, to which Roshi cannot compare.
The other major factor is genjutsu, which is the real game breaker when porting Naruto characters into DB. If you don't have any special resistance or immunity to it up-front, you are doomed once the genjutsu is in full effect, because the technique to remove genjutsu is a specialized trick only other characters from Naruto would know. Jiraiya's genjutsu is limited based on a few conditions (he has to summon two toads to do it, it takes about fifteen seconds to work, and it's sound-based, meaning you can figure out where it's coming from in a short window and stop the song), but he does have it. And once it's in effect, Roshi is completely helpless and effectively dead.
This doesn't mean Roshi is completely outclassed. It means Roshi has very narrow and specific windows in which he can nail Jiraiya with a Kamehameha or other attacks, such as at the start of the fight or when Jiraiya's toads are starting the genjutsu. Outside those windows, though, Roshi will be at a huge disadvantage, and overall I'd say that the edge in this fight is once again leaning towards the Naruto character.
So I'm curious how would a death battle between the Jurai Empire and the Galactic Empire go down, who do you think would win?
The Jurai empire has Nigh Omnipotent Trees that can physically escape from Black holes and destory them from the shockwave of their escape velocity if we scale them from Light Hawk Wings Tenchi, since they are powered by the same source of energy Tenchi is.
the Galactic empire has no chance.
Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Nov 7th 2018 at 10:03:43 AM
It warrants noting that this isn't actually the first time a Dragon Ball character's faced a ninja. During the Red Ribbon Army arc, Goku fought the ninja Murasaki who pulled out all the stops to beat him through craftiness. The point of the fight was basically to demonstrate that all the sneaky tricks in the world couldn't hold a candle to a super-warrior of Goku's calibre.
Roshi is significantly more formidable than Goku was back then. Among other things, his ki-sensing is going to make going to ground difficult. Because he can read ki signatures, he'll be aware of Jiraiya's location at every point of the fight, save for when Jiraiya's in that pocket dimension. It is well within Roshi's power to hit Jiraiya with a relentless assault and never give him breathing room despite his best ninja tricks to try and disappear.
Roshi also has his own tricky maneuvers as well. He can hypnotize opponents into passing out or paralyze their body by jabbing their forehead with two fingers. His Thunder Shock Surprise electrocutes the target while paralyzing their body, rendering them helpless.
I have few doubts that this is a stomp. Ki-sensing eliminates any advantage that Jiraiya's ninjutsu might grant him, leaving him with an opponent who's simply stronger, faster, and can incapacitate him without needing a fifteen-second startup and outside help to do it.
Jiraiya also has his Sage Mode, and summoning as well. Normally being bigger in Dragonball isn't much of a factor (Oozaru Vegeta being the lone exception), but Boss Toad and later his sons (though I don't think Jiraiya can summon the latter two) are all pretty intelligent fighters themselves.
This probably is a stomp in Roshi's favour, but I keep wondering if there's something in Jiraiya's move list that we're all forgetting.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 7th 2018 at 10:54:02 AM
But all of Murasaki's tricks were basically bullshit, nowhere near the level of outright supernatural powers Jiraiya and other Shinobi in Naruto exhibit.
I don't think Roshi gets any significant feats from Super.
Beating Freeza mooks, harassing one of the tournament fighters, and getting stomped by Frost don't amount to much. Freeza's goons have no quantifiable stats beyond "getting sliced apart by Trunks" and "getting one-shot by the Earthlings." I guess their blasters were enough to pose a threat to early Namek Krillin and Gohan, but Roshi never got hit by those, and at one point in Resurrection F he was actually getting overwhelmed by Freeza's goons.
There's that filler with him getting powered up by a filler character and posing a threat to Tien.
If you go to the manga, and who knows which version DB will look at the manga or the anime, Roshi has "basic Ultra Instinct" that let him evade Jiren's punches for all of 5-6 panels.
Ki-sensing will factor here, but given that Jiraiya has Sage Mode which has chakra that's supposed to be undetectable even to people who can sense regular ki, and Jiraiya has access to Rasengans' that rival pre-Sage Mode Naruto's in power, and has speed equivalent to if not greater than Orochimaru and Kakashi's, I bet this isn't totally a stomp, depending on how fast Kakashi and Orochimaru are calculated to be.
Edited by Soble on Nov 8th 2018 at 4:59:22 AM
Roshi gains the ability to perform the Mafuba a few times without dying in Super.
Also Roshi's fight with Dercori establishes that Roshi is somewhat capable of seeing through illusions (He detects her using illusions to hide herself). He cites his ability at seeing through deceptions as a trait he has over Goku and their ilk who are more headstrong and less strategic.
Roshi's also a tactical fighter - his own fights (As Jacky Chun) show that he's extremely proficient at guessing an opponent's maneuvers and strategy. He's also very good at coming up with counters. Super does play into this by having him use Mafuba to attempt to take out warriors he feels are too strong for him to simply overpower.
Edited by Ghilz on Nov 8th 2018 at 8:36:45 AM
Yeah, zero interest in seeing any Naruto versus Dragon Ball fights because of how lopsided even the weakest, popular DB fighters are compared to Naruto.
Hey now, Naruto could probably take on Yamcha
Or Krillin,definitely Krillin
Definitely not Hercule Satan, though. He's too powerful.
Edited by FlutterFire on Nov 8th 2018 at 11:13:06 AM
Krillin completely stomps everyone in the Naruto universe. He’s far stronger than Vegeta was when he first arrived on Earth, which means he could blow up the planet (or put that energy into a less destructive attack) if he really wanted to. Plus Super gives him a way to shut down all ki or energy based techniques entirely.
Yamcha, being a completely gray area due to having no feats at all past the Saipan arc (during which he fights a thing as strong as Raditz to a standstill until it blows him up) I’m unsure about.
Super manga also gives Roshi a weak form of Ultra Instinct, though they might or might not count that. As for fighting Freeza soldiers, depending on the source they’re either around a Raditz’ level or around Nappa/Vegeta’s level, with the elitest of the grunts we meet (Cui) explicitly being around as strong as Vegeta was when he arrived on Earth. Is Roshi can fight them evenly, it doesn’t say much about Jiraya’s chances.
Also, Word of God about Super retcons Roshi as being extremely strong even back in the Saiyan saga, but having chosen to let his students handle saving the world themselves. Which has problems plot wise, but hardly matters from Death Battle’s point of view.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 8th 2018 at 9:17:07 AM
It’s weird to hear to imagine characters like Krillen & Roshi who are regularly considered weak as all fuck or at the very least severely out of their league in their own show can completely stomp the strongest warriors of another show.
I mean the only time you hear Krillen & curb-stomp usually is when the former is on the receiving end of it.
That's just because the bar is set so f*cking high by the Super Saiyans. Krillin is Overshadowed by Awesome.
With a battle power of 75,000 as of the end of the Namek arc, Krillin's more powerful than 4/5 of the Ginyu Force (only the Captain surpasses him). The Ginyus are, themselves, the elite of the elite; a squadron of the most powerful fighters in all the universe, paling only in comparison to Frieza himself, the Strongest in the Universe.
Although gods, androids, and god-killing eldritch horrors all surpass Frieza and the Ginyus, there's no mortal being in the Dragon Ball universe that compares. From that point forward, the series would have to go outside the realm of Always Someone Better because the protagonists were now the definitive strongest mortal beings in existence.
Consequentially, Krillin's a "loser" because he wasn't able to keep up as the Saiyans started surpassing the very gods themselves.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 8th 2018 at 12:00:52 PM
Changing the moment buutttt
For a death battle who would you pick to fight Storm?
FUN FACT: It's actually a plot point in the Buu arc that the Saiyans are way more powerful than any mortal being in existence has any right to be. Kaioshin, the highest godly being in the show at the time and who outright stated he could kill Frieza in one punch, repeatedly expresses shock at how insanely powerful Goku and Vegeta are as they totally curbstomp his wildest expectations and nearly turn the entire conflict into a brief pitstop on the way to Awesome City.
I wanna say Weather Report, but...snails.
Bascially, Unless you have a God Tier Stand, Hokuto Shinken, or a the power of Cosmos, goku is basically Shonen Jumps Strongest Protagonist, Though the likes of Pegasus Seiya in the original manga and more recent material pushes him above even Super Goku.
For comparison, I generally place Nappa as the point most other shounen series can't pass in regards to Dragonball, mostly because Nappa has a feat that's very easily compared: when he first appears, Nappa shows he's strong enough to destroy an entire city with nothing but his own pure power, and - also important - do so effortlessly. Lots of other series have characters able to destroy cities or comparable sized areas, but it's rare for another series to have the kind of scaling that allows a character to do so without much effort. So a lot of series have characters who could probably give Nappa a good fight, but not win.
A lot of other series are more scaled to King Piccolo, who could do so (or at least blow a decent chunk out of a cityscape with a single blast), but it was his ultimate attack that required him popping veins and bleeding stamina and screaming and charging up for a while to do.
As for the humans, Krillin is also the comic relief and the Muggle Best Friend, so regardless of how strong he is he's going to be beaten up because it's funny, struggle to do anything important because it's funny, and/or get seriously hurt to make the other characters emote about what's happened to him. This leads to people remembering him as being weaker than he actually is, because no matter what he's unlikely to give a good showing.
Roshi is in a somewhat different boat. He exerted his power pretty much not at all between the end of Dragonball (Majunior, for those who don't like the distinction) and the end of Z, with the exception of a couple wonky movie appearances, and then suddenly got more content and an ultimately rather vague power buff with Revival F and Super.
But vague or not, he beat out the person he's up against here before that buff, and definitely does so after it.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 8th 2018 at 1:19:02 AM
Basically the supposed "weaklings" in Dragon Ball like Krillin or Tien thrown in another setting would be a case of Normal Fish in a Tiny Pond.
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