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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
We still need an organization to handle immigration and customs. It's not like ICE as a concept is obsolete or horrible. The issue is twofold: leadership and culture.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"ICE is only 15 years old, though. One solution I've heard: Create a Department of Labor agency that issues visas and investigates overstays and unauthorized employment. Create a unit of the FBI to fight trafficking and border crimes. Delegate removals to the Border Patrol, and that's it for ICE.
The problem with ICE is as you said: the culture of the agency and the rampant abuse. That's not changing no matter who puts the leash on them. It's a largely white supremacist organization who think nothing of the most heinous things they do. It's also constitutionally problematic as you give a Civil agency near criminal powers, the ability to hold suspects without warrants or proper oversight, and more.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 23rd 2018 at 10:48:38 AM
5 witnesses in the Manafort case have been granted full immunity at Mueller's request.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics/manafort-witnesses-immunity/index.html
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Then you have the same problem you had before 9/11, where immigration and customs responsibilities are spread across half a dozen agencies and nothing gets done m.
An easier solution would be to eliminate the “immigrant removal” division within ICE and make them a purely investigative agency. Enforcement can be left to CBP or other agencies.
They should have sent a poet.As far as I can tell ICE is pretty useless. It has been around for a fairly short time after all, and I am actually not quite sure if they do anything border control or the courts or the police can't handle just as well. Why not simply giving the border control more responsibility?
Edited by Swanpride on Jul 23rd 2018 at 11:45:50 AM
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They’re DHS’s main investigative body. You wouldn’t think so from the news but the majority of their agents don’t deal with deportation. When you hear about ICE agents wanting ICE to be dissolved or reformed, it’s people from those other parts of the agency who are tired of their coworkers making them look bad.
Like Fighteer mentioned, the problem is that there’s a pretty horrific institutional culture within the parts of the agency that do deal with deportation.
Edited by archonspeaks on Jul 23rd 2018 at 11:50:43 AM
They should have sent a poet.ICE also handles human trafficking and child porn.
A lot of their agents have complained they've been taking off slavery and rape cases to send back immigrants.
Because ICE is just a tool to hurt immigrants and refugees under Trump.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.And that's the crux of it. No one who says (sans the crazy fringe who don't count) 'Abolish ICE' means 'Don't do THOSE' Jobs.
But due to Trump, ICE will forever be saddled with being the guys who brought toddlers before a judge, separated children and their parents and basically became the damn Gestapo for brown people.
ICE, the name, the brand, the identity, needs to be gone.
"You can reply to this Message!"The Department of Homeland Security itself is an unnecessary pointless organization that has continually been a thorn in the side of human rights activists as well as liberty as a whole because it was made as a agency to look like it was doing something about terror.
It was also stocked with the dregs of the agencies which it was ostensibly supposed to help but just confused.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:04:11 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
x4 I can get behind getting rid of the name, but the general formation of the agency makes sense. We don't want a return to the pre-9//11 mess of agencies taking care of this stuff.
After 9/11 a committee found that the agencies tasked with domestic security weren't adequate because they were too fragmented and therefore unable to share information and cases.
I agree with 3of4 - saying that ICE is worth keeping around badly misunderstands the public's view of it. If Kirsten Gillibrand feels she can say that we should abolish ICE, that's evidence that many, many people want ICE gone - if your response to that is to say "Actually, ICE does some good stuff", then quite frankly, you are terrible at PR.
At the minimum, I'd say that ICE needs to go, and the government needs to both ensure that its human rights abuses are not repeated by any agency, and that system is purged of any who would perpetuate them.
Oh God! Natural light!So in unrelated news, the Hill Cumorah pageant - the Mormon festival celebrating Joseph Smith's revelation for the Book of Mormon - is in full swing.
I mention this because a church down the road from my workplace (which is within a half-hour drive to the Hill Cumorah) currently has a rented billboard truck out front reading - "What Mormons Don't Tell .com". This leads to a site run by "Christian Research and Counsel" and is aimed exclusively at clamping down on Mormon apostasy. Just felt like sharing my frustration.
Oh yeah - and they're officially a tax-exempt organization based in Florida, according to a quick Google search.
Edited by ironballs16 on Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:37:38 PM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
Which is what Gilibrand suggested, that ICE be abolished and replaced by an organization with a similar mission but minus the rot. Just food for thought.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 23rd 2018 at 3:28:21 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
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It's a massive, Going-Out-of-Business Sale at ICE's Racist Scumbags Emporium! Everything Must Go!
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jul 23rd 2018 at 3:30:01 PM
Oh God! Natural light!

Eh, it may be old news but I think it's still relevant.
And yes I completely agree on Kirsten Gilibrand, it's worth noting that she was the first Senator to suggest it thus proving once again that the suspicions of the populist left have no basis in reality.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 23rd 2018 at 1:25:39 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang