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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#249876: Jul 21st 2018 at 8:58:23 PM

So you're telling me that, for instance, the system of checks and balances implemented in the first place was to make it easier for "bad people"? That's absurd; institutions as a whole exist to limit individual power. Whilst this means they get used to block reform as well as hinder it, they're important in not having a total reliance on selfless politicians.

Some of the earliest checks and balances existed to protect slavery as a compromise. I say that as someone who strongly approves on them.

But we need good people writing the laws before good laws can protect against bad politicians.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 21st 2018 at 9:00:09 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#249877: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:18:17 PM

[up][up] She's running in Kansas. her name is Sharice Davids, for Kansas District 3.

Meanwhile, some harrowing stuff done in our names? Kids separated from their families detail their experiences.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#249878: Jul 22nd 2018 at 2:51:18 AM

The notion of Montenegro to attack anyone is idiotic to begin with. For one, of all of the states in the area it might be the most peaceful. Two, most of its neighbours are way, way bigger both in seize and military.

Plus, even if Montenegro would attack someone, that would have had nothing to do with NATO. As it reminded Turkey just two years ago, NATO is a defence alliance, it doesn't intervene in a war in which the NATO country can be considered the aggressor.

but then I doubt that Trump even knows where Montenegro is.

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#249879: Jul 22nd 2018 at 3:11:02 AM

As if the Balkans needed any more trouble...

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#249880: Jul 22nd 2018 at 3:43:57 AM

Well, Montenegro was the ONE country which was kind of not really involved in the Balkan wars (well, a little bit, some of their soldiers were plundering Croatia, but the situation was complicated back then), they actually didn't leave Yugoslavia in the early 1990s, initially stayed with Serbia on request of the EU for the sake of the stability of the region and finally left peacefully after Referendum during which they worked with the EU to keep it as fair as possible. And they are working pretty hard on fulfilling the standards to get accepted into the EU (if everything goes by plan, they should get full membership status by 2025).

Basically in the whole Balkan mess Montenegro was pretty much the adult in the room. So it is really rich to call them "aggressive".

Edited by Swanpride on Jul 22nd 2018 at 3:47:21 AM

eagleoftheninth Midwest emo connoisseur from a dreamed portrait, imperfect (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Midwest emo connoisseur
#249881: Jul 22nd 2018 at 4:27:06 AM

Montenegro has warm water ports with Mediterranean access and is a short plane ride away from Sevastopol. Just some food for thought.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#249882: Jul 22nd 2018 at 4:30:58 AM

@Fighteer: it doesn't. yet another reminder, as if we needed one that Trump is a moron who wallows in his ignorance and considers it a virtue.

Trump delenda est
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#249883: Jul 22nd 2018 at 6:20:05 AM

[up][up] Russia would need to go through Romania or Bulgaria and Macedonia or Serbia to get to Montenegro. It's not like Scandinavia or the Baltics, which are right next door to Russia.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#249884: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:10:11 AM

Something that has me completely and utterly mystified: two things actually.

1. With the threats posed by ISIS, terrorist remnants in Iraq and Afghanistan, Russia, China, North Korea, and the threats Trump sees in Canada, the UN, the EU, Mexico, women, African Americans, of all those how is Montenegro a threat?

2. Trump is seeking to make enemies of Canada and Europe and allies of Russia and North Korea. Putin and Ill could be accurately described as dictators, tyrants, even if Trump thinks he can make real estate deals with them or thinks they are people to emulate what baffles me is how anyone can think Putin and Ill would not double cross Trump or go back on any deal he may make. Putting any criticism of Trump aside, how can someone as unstable as Ill comes across be trusted?

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#249885: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:18:43 AM

[up] The mistake you're making is assuming Trump's reasoning is in any way reasonable. He's driven entirely by his ego.

Disgusted, but not surprised
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#249886: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:37:28 AM

Sure but would his ego not dictate or suggest that entering into a deal like this would not be the best idea? If logic would fail at telling him that he could well lose out might his ego win out?

Hmm this reminds me of something from Rainbow Six, the acronym MICE: money, ideology, conscience, ego. With that in mind what drives Trump? Money? He should be wealthy enough. Ideology? What ideology does Trump have? A clear opposition to other countries and races, what else? Conscience? Conscience made him challenge the NRA and look at taking guns but these days it seems Trump's conscience tells him NATO are the enemy for reasons I'm not quite sure of. Ego would be what most would say defines him and I would agree that he has the ego to think he can win out against Putin and Ill. Especially after last week however would ego also make him think he would not want to look bad? Trump may think he never looks bad, on the other hand he does deeply care what people think of him so would his ego not warn him how his actions would affect that?

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#249887: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:38:15 AM

Trump doesn't think long term, so no.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#249888: Jul 22nd 2018 at 8:09:52 AM

Am I the only one who finds it way too easy to imagine Trump saying "Montenegro" with a long E?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#249889: Jul 22nd 2018 at 8:10:20 AM

Hmm this reminds me of something from Rainbow Six, the acronym MICE: money, ideology, conscience, ego. With that in mind what drives Trump? Money? He should be wealthy enough. Ideology? What ideology does Trump have? A clear opposition to other countries and races, what else? Conscience? Conscience made him challenge the NRA and look at taking guns but these days it seems Trump's conscience tells him NATO are the enemy for reasons I'm not quite sure of. Ego would be what most would say defines him and I would agree that he has the ego to think he can win out against Putin and Ill. Especially after last week however would ego also make him think he would not want to look bad? Trump may think he never looks bad, on the other hand he does deeply care what people think of him so would his ego not warn him how his actions would affect that?

Money: Oh no he's totally not wealthy enough, all non-Russian banks have refused to give him loans because he's so unreliable. That's fairly obvious financial incentive for him to care what Russia thinks, they have him by the short hairs.

Ideology: In relation to Putin his ideology is right-wing authoritarianism, he would love to have the power that Putin has and the pseudo-democratic authoritarianism of Russia. Thus he absolutely has a ideological reason to want to cosy up to Russia and behave in a servile manner.

Ego: This one is simple, Trump wants to feel big and important thus when you factor in the ideological factor it makes perfect sense that he'd kiss Putin's ass. Furthermore you're underestimating how delusional he is, anything he does is good and he expects others to agree thus the idea that it might not work is something he will never realize until the consequences are clear.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:12:48 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#249890: Jul 22nd 2018 at 8:33:53 AM

In all likelihood Trump never gave a single thought to Montenegro before that question. The Fox News twit was pitching hima softball question on his anti-iinterventionism by asking why American soldiers should die to protect Montenegro (once again showing that Trumpsters are without souls, or an understanding of how deals actually work) . Trump chose to take it even further by claiming that Montenegro could drag the U.S into a war. Because he’s an idiot with no idea how anything works.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#249891: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:03:07 AM

[up][up] Trump doesn't have an ideology, really. Yeah, he's definitely an authoritarian, It's not consistant or developed enough to be a true ideology.

A much more likely motavator for his behavior, is ego. Remember, he is a narcissist, and in the end, he's a slave to it.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 22nd 2018 at 1:03:20 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#249892: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:10:54 AM

Well, he is also a white supremacist. Like, we know that.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 22nd 2018 at 1:15:12 PM

i'm tired, my friend
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#249893: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:20:17 AM

[up] Montenegrins are white Europeans, though.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#249894: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:23:42 AM

[up][up]Yes, his white supremacy and authoritarianism are both consistent so I seriously question the idea that he doesn't have an ideology. It may be vapid and anti-intellectual but it exists.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#249895: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:24:44 AM

They’re from the Balkans, the American definition of white has often excluded people who live near the Mediterranean.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#249896: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:31:07 AM

[up] Montenegrins are white Europeans, though.
I doubt Trump knows that, given my earlier thought that he most likely pronounces the second half of the country's name with a long E.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#249897: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:31:42 AM

Don't look to Trump for answers as to why Montenegro. Look to Russia. Always look to Russia.

Montenegro joined NATO in 2016, despite repeated efforts by Russia to prevent them to. Russia even sponsored a coup that was meant to seize control of the government in an attempt to prevent the vote.

Since then, they've been trying to shape a narrative of a corrupt Montenegrin government acting as puppets for NATO to destabilize the Balkans. Russia despises Montenegro for becoming NATO-aligned; there is a very strong likelihood that Montenegro could be the next Crimea.

So. Why Montenegro? Because Trump wants to signal that when Russia comes for them, the United States will not intervene. Trump suggesting that we will not uphold our NATO obligations for Montenegro specifically is a promise to Putin.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:34:43 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#249898: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:38:23 AM

I think Trump just singled out Montenegro as an example of "an insignificant Eastern European nation we wouldn't want to go to war to defend". Why Montenegro? Most likely it's the first small Eastern European nation that popped into his head, due to the coverage of him shoving aside the Montenegrin PM last year. Other than maybe Slovenia, but obviously he doesn't want to piss off Melania too much.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#249899: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:41:14 AM

[up]x6 Which is funny, because the Ancient White Supremacists of America would've considered the Montenegrins the same stock as the Russians (IE, Slavs), who would've definitively not been white to the WAS Ps of America, and yet modern White Supremacists are aligning with the Russians over the Montenegrins.

I guess to them, some Slavs are more White then others.

[up]x4 Again, Racist Americans 100+ years ago would tell you that the Slavic People's weren't white. And I have a strong suspicion that they'll also start going after certain 'White People' because they aren't the right 'white'.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jul 22nd 2018 at 1:43:32 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#249900: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:12:44 AM

It wasn't just a coup to seize power, it was a coup which had the goal to outright murder all of the current (and democratically elected) leaders of Montenegro. And that's what Nato is for, to protect countries like Montenegro from their bigger neighbours, not just for the sake of said countries, but because those small conflict tend to spiral out of control. Remember how WWI started.


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