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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#249651: Jul 19th 2018 at 11:56:59 PM

If you want to try to get Net Neutrality reinstated, vote Democrat. It doesn't matter if it's in a state as red as a baboon's butt like Georgia, because it still sends a message.

Do not obey in advance.
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#249652: Jul 19th 2018 at 11:57:23 PM

This discussion brings to mind the old saying: the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#249653: Jul 19th 2018 at 11:58:37 PM

Radical leftists who believe that participating in the representative democratic system at all is a greater betrayal of their ideology than using their vote to try to do some good in the meanwhile or at least stave off a worse evil until their desired social system is implemented, probably don't really have one worth implementing in the first place.

I'm no fan of Noam Chomsky, but when you're calling him a traitor to leftism and a fake anarcho-syndicalist because he told people to vote for John Kerry over Bush, because it meant encouraging people to participate in a system you consider oppressive, then it's clear you care more about waving your leftism boner than achieving a properly leftist society.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 20th 2018 at 3:06:38 PM

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#249654: Jul 20th 2018 at 1:08:06 AM

"Bloomberg News is reporting that Russian President Vladimir Putin is talking about details from his private meeting with President Donald Trump."

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#249655: Jul 20th 2018 at 1:21:02 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin mocked Trump behind his back while hosting a drinking party with his actual (sort of) friends. TBH I'm not sure Putin has any genuine friends.

Edited by M84 on Jul 20th 2018 at 4:21:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#249656: Jul 20th 2018 at 1:35:14 AM

He seems to actually get along with Medvedev well enough

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#249657: Jul 20th 2018 at 1:43:48 AM

He did trust Medvedev enough to be his loyal placeholder.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#249658: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:15:36 AM

Remember that really weird story The NY Times reported on a couple of weeks ago where the US threatened Equador over a UN resolution in support of Breast Feeding?

I wonder if there was more to that then you saw at first glance. Someone connected the dots and it seems very plausible.

Just putting this on your radar because it seems likely to become important soon.

Last week, the Trump Admin aggressively threatened Ecuador with retribution if it didn’t do as it was told.

Onlookers were confused by level of aggression over a benign subject.

The subject was a U.N. resolution in favor of breastfeeding.

While the U.S. may have had some nuanced policy disagreement with the specifics of the resolution, it was by means important enough to threaten wholesale international retaliation.

Struck me as one of those “...there’s gotta be more to that story” kinda things at the time.

Now, fast-forward a week to yesterday’s indictments and it appears clear Mueller has Julian Assange and Wikileaks dead in his sights.

Assange is currently holed up in an Ecuadorian embassy broom closet in London. If Mueller were to indict him, he could not be extradited or tried without Ecuador’s cooperation.

For years, Ecuador has refused to evict Assange into the waiting arms of authorities looking to prosecute him on rape charges. However, Ecuador’s new president doesn’t seem quite as protective of his London embassy’s perma-tenant.

Last week, he signaled an interest in working with the UK and others to resolve the Assange situation (read: “get him out of our basement.”).

Assange is the middleman in an array of criminal activity related to Trump’s illegitimate election.

He is the direct connection between members of Trump’s inner circle and now-indicted Russian intelligence operatives.

Assange is directly or indirectly connected to everyone in the Trump orbit from Roger Stone to Steve Bannon to Cambridge Analytica to the Mercers...

If Assange were ever to be indicted, extradited and sent to the United States for prosecution by Mueller, he would be under intense pressure to make a deal - and would have infinite leverage to trade testimony for a free pass.

He could take down the whole syndicate.

Even the thought of Assange stepping off a plane on U.S. soil in handcuffs flanked by federal agents is enough to send the Trumplandia capos into a cold sweat.

That would be disastrous.

Assange alone in a room with Mueller and co. looking to bargain.

Last week, the Marmalade Godfather had his goons put a horse head in Ecuador’s bed. They sent a message.

Cross us and there will be payback.

Expect Assange to be indicted. Expect Rosenstein and the DOJ to publicly call for his extradition and trial. Expect our allies to pile on and add more pressure. Expect the U.S. Department of State to stay suspiciously quiet on the topic.

I think the Trump Admin just fired a warning shot last week in the U.N. as a pretext to covertly pressuring to keep Assange from facing justice, and more importantly, from bringing down the entire Treason Jenga tower with him.

Will be interesting to see what Ecuador does.

I’m gonna lay down my predict-a-guess.

My bet is Ecuador will turn over Assange one way or the other. Everyone but Trump and Russia want him to face justice.

The issue is how to release him.

I’d bet on a pre-negotiated two-stepper. Ecuador releases him to the U.K. on the agreement he won’t be prosecuted for the rape charges, and then the U.K. promptly ships him stateside.

Assange is a lynchpin.

His removal from the Ecuadorian embassy would create huge liabilities for the entire Trump-Russia crime syndicate.

Trump Land appears to already be working covertly to keep him out of reach.

Keep an eye on U.S.-Ecuador stuff. There are games afoot. <end>

Reporting from a few weeks ago that Equador is in talks to kick him out, supports this.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 20th 2018 at 9:28:18 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#249659: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:19:42 AM

Why does your transcript sometimes skip words or repeat sentences, and why is it so spaced out?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#249660: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:19:44 AM

Huh, I had almost forgotten Assange even existed. I was actually kind of enjoying not having that odious man in my brainspace.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#249661: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:22:17 AM

Same. All the other odious men just overshadowed him.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#249662: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:24:00 AM

[up][up][up] it's a Twitter thread and I'm on my phone. Fixed it a bit.

I don't have anything substantial to back it up, but I did want to put the possibility on everyone's radar.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 20th 2018 at 9:26:20 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#249663: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:20:41 AM

@.@ I've volunteered to go door-to-door for our gubernatorial nominee, Jared Polis, on Sunday and I am super nervous. And also excited. And also nervous.

Awkwardly, I actually voted for the other person in the primary. My vote went to his rival, Cary Kennedy, though Polis was my second choice out of the four options. I liked her platform better than his.

But the primary's over and now it's time to pull together and make sure some Trump-worshipping Republican doesn't take the chair.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 20th 2018 at 8:21:03 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#249664: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:20:49 AM

basically they can seem very attractive for those having insecurity issues and wanting to reassert themselves, specially when they are afraid they will lose all their assurances in the future.
If the alt-right had been around when I was a teenager, I probably would have been sucked in.
(neither Eisenhower nor Nixon would've supported ideas like putting the Premier's word above the FBI or CIA,
Nixon would never support anything that put someone else in power above him. And Ike ... man, why can't we get a Republican like him in my lifetime?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#249665: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:23:53 AM

I probably wouldn't have gone into the alt-right on account of me not being white enough to be accepted. I might have gotten suckered into other awful groups in my "shitty teenager" phase.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#249666: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:35:39 AM

I don't think I was ever in danger of going to the alt-right, but I certainly regret some of the dumber things I've said in my youth.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#249667: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:37:42 AM

Personally the worst I've ever been politically was a brief phase when I was an edgy South Park libertarian who loved #bothsides, looking back the stupidity I spouted was criminally offensive.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 20th 2018 at 10:37:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#249668: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:40:46 AM

I was adamantly in the camp of "climate change is entirely natural", all based on a single well-written article that I read online. That is among other things that I'd rather not disclose.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#249669: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:41:48 AM

Dana Rohrabacher is a Kremlin Stooge (and an idiot.)

Russia-friendly Rep. Rohrabacher doubts hacking indictment, plans to consult outside ‘experts’

On July 3, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) talked with a local news station in his district about a topic on which he has often strayed from the pack: the 2016 hack of the Democratic National Committee. Rohrabacher, who has urged friendlier relations with Russia, said that there were plenty of questions about the hack, and that it might have been an “inside job,” followed by a years-long coverup.

“I went to Julian Assange of course to talk to him personally, the guy who of course disclosed all of these emails, and he adamantly said the Russians weren’t in it,” he told Fox LA reporter Elex Michaelson. “And, by the way, if we could in some way guarantee that he can get out of the Ecuadorian Embassy, he said he told me he has absolute proof, just actual, not just words, but he’s got proof that the Russians did not hack.”

Ten days later, the Justice Department indicted 12 Russian military intelligence officers, fingering them for the email hacks that roiled and wounded Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. For many people, the indictment put to rest several alternative theories of how the DNC, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta were hacked.

In a short interview, Rohrabacher said that he wanted to know more.

“The explanation of the indictment is so complicated and technical that it is hard for anyone to judge whether it’s accurate,” he said. “There are experts that will be able to judge whether it’s accurate. I know that there are a number of intelligence agents, people experienced with this area of technically, the VIPS. They’re experts in cyberwarfare. I plan to talk to them to see if the information provided in the indictments is something that they are willing to accept as possible as compared to what they said in the past.”

Rohrabacher was referring to the work of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group of “Russiagate” skeptics who argued in 2017 that “an insider copied DNC data onto an external storage device.” They cited “independent cyber investigators” and got a serious airing for their theory, from the pages of the Nation to prime time on Fox News. But not every member of VIPS had signed on to that finding, and Rohrabacher admitted that the indictments raised serious questions about alternate theories.

“Because of the amount of time necessary for a hack from the inside to get all of those emails would have taken out a huge amount of time and instead it was done very quickly. So we know it was an inside job and we know there are several people in, working in the DNC at that time who were disgruntled because they knew that the DNC was breaking its own rules by undermining Bernie Sanders’s campaign,” Rohrabacher said on July 3.

This week, the congressman said that he needed to know more.

“The government said it’s got to be a hack,” said Rohrabacher. “I’ll see if [VIPS] now have changed their minds, because they had a technical explanation of how supposedly people were able to get these emails. This is the first time I’ve been given these details about hacking from the special prosecutor. I don’t want to jump to conclusions.”

And on the Russian Spy indictment:

Rep. Rohrabacher: Indictment of NRA-linked Russian is 'stupid'

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) says he’s not sure whether he’s the congressman mentioned in Monday’s indictment of a Russian gun-rights activist for acting as an unregistered agent of the Kremlin — but he is sure that the charge against the woman is “bogus.”

The indictment of 29-year-old Mariia Butina notes that she had discussions with a prominent Russian official — believed to be Alexander Torshin — about his plans to “meet with a U.S. Congressman during a Congressional Delegation trip to Moscow in August 2015."

Rohrabacher said on Tuesday that he was part of that delegation, but he said he was there with at least one other lawmaker and a larger group of Americans.

“I know I had dinner with [Butina] along with another member, along with a visiting delegation to Russia,” he said. “Is that something we should be worried about?”

Rohrabacher unloaded on the indictment, which alleged clandestine efforts by Butina to set up a back channel between Russian and American political leaders, using the National Rifle Association as a conduit.

“It’s ridiculous. It’s stupid,” Rohrabacher said. “She’s the assistant of some guy who is the head of the bank and is a member of their Parliament. That’s what we call a spy? That shows you how bogus this whole thing is.”

“This is an attempt to undermine the president’s ability to have better relationships with Russia,” he added.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 20th 2018 at 10:44:03 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#249670: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:44:29 AM

If it helps at all, Rohrabacher seems to be behind his current opponent in current polling.

And a recent poll shows Ted Cruz only two points ahead of Beto O'Rourke. Let's hear it for Betomentum. Remember, everyone: even if you're in a red state or district, your vote still counts, because that's how things flip. Especially in a wave election.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#249671: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:50:45 AM

Not gonna lie, I was probably at risk of joining the Alt-Right in my youth Once upon a time, there existed a young Tobias Drake who was very fond of social Darwinism, thought the worst crisis in the universe was that women sleep with JERKS and ASSHOLES instead of NICE GUYS LIKE ME, and liked to say that the main reason the Iraq War was a mess was that we didn't brutally crush the Iraqis, annex their territory, and raise an American flag over it.

That version of me would have slotted in just fine with the Alt-Right. Most likely as an Incel. Their brand of Never My Fault misogyny would have been very attractive to his ears, had it been more organized at the time.

But that person had to do a lot of personal reflection after he finally landed the girlfriend of his dreams and then lost her in less than two months because he was just such a misogynistic asshole that no woman in her right mind would have stayed with him. And also discovered this forum around the same time and started listening to the accounts of people who weren't privileged heterosexual white men talking about a world he didn't even know existed around him.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#249672: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:51:03 AM

I was a horrible homophobe in my The Fundamentalist days but I actually try to avoid this kind of embarrassment by being upfront about it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#249673: Jul 20th 2018 at 8:11:01 AM

@Tobias Some advise for your first time door knocking, if you go out as part of a group you can often tag along with someone (so you just stand and listen for a few doors) or possible be the person with the clipboard who records down the responce from each address.

Oh and try not to let it get you down how many no answers you get, there’s a say amongst door to door campaigners, “the outs always win”.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#249674: Jul 20th 2018 at 8:21:04 AM

Honestly, I find the "People who don't vote Democrat because they aren't Leftist enough are traitors to the Left" to be a awful viewpoint. It's one I've encountered in the real world and is eyerolling. I voted for Hillary but that was because Trump was a monster.

"Good enough" is a terrible sentiment that I have no belief any voter should indulge. If they don't represent your views DO NOT vote for them.

This is raw privilege speaking. You can only afford to rant against "the lesser evil" if you'll be alright even if the greater evil is elected. Like it or not, the two-party system means that you have a binary choice in elections. The only candidates that have any chance of winning are the Democrat and the Republican. If you vote third party, or refuse to vote at all, then you're essentially saying that you don't care which of those two win. Refusing to vote for the lesser evil isn't a victory for the hypothetical good — it's a real and concrete victory for the greater evil, and that has real and concrete consequences.

Refusing to sully your hands by making a pragmatic choice does not absolve you of responsibility for the harm caused by one of the two "bad" candidates winning. It makes you responsible for the harm caused by the the worse of the two viable candidates winning.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#249675: Jul 20th 2018 at 8:33:25 AM

We have in Germany a saying: "Wer nicht wählt, wählt rechts" - "Who doesn't vote, votes for the right wing (which in this case means the extreme right)." It goes hand in hand with the saying that the only thing which has to happen for evil to win is good people to stand aside.

Translate this to the US two party system not voting Democrat basically means standing aside for the right wing to win. What is even worse: People think that they make a point by not supporting Democrats, but what they are actually doing is the opposite, because the more percentage the Republicans get, the more Democrats believe that they have to adopt a few of their talking points in order to keep voters. If one really wants to change the direction of the Democratic party, one has to vote democrats and one has to engage in the party itself. Everything else is at best useless side-line commentary, at worst actively harmful.

There is a reason why the Russian Cyber attack went two tier: On the one hand, they encouraged fear in the typical Trump voter to get them to the ballot box. But they also encouraged supporters of Bernie Sanders (and people who could be convinced in hindsight that he would have been a better candidate) to NOT vote for Hillary. Hence Bernie Sanders Popularity rising during the election campaign, he got the same boost Trump did, and hence the far left often being as unwilling to belief in the Russian intervention as the Trumpists are, because they have been duped, too.


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