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AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#248401: Jul 5th 2018 at 7:19:59 AM

[up][up]In that case you can see his defense secretary and the rest of the advisors not holding their words and calling Trump any and every known word and euphemism for are you a complete fucking moron?

I don't really think the Do D and even Jim Mattis would be supporting an invasion of Venezuela for no good reason other than boast the Cheeto Benito' ego.

Inter arma enim silent leges
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#248402: Jul 5th 2018 at 7:40:41 AM

And what of the refugees that would inevitably increase if such a thing were to happen? We already know the Trump administration's attitude towards refugees, but this would be a special case because we'd be directly responsible for an influx. So where are they supposed to go?

Trump admin's (and base's) inevitable response: "Don't care as long as it's not here."

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#248403: Jul 5th 2018 at 7:40:59 AM

[up]x3 I don't think you guys are really getting a what happened.

She was sitting on the bottom of the statue's robe, which is on a 154 ft. tall platform, causing the evacuation of the entire island.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 5th 2018 at 10:44:26 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#248404: Jul 5th 2018 at 7:51:22 AM

And in so doing, she made a statement in the symbol of immigration - both the ideal and the dirty realities - closest to the very heart of American culture itself. Good for her.

It's been fun.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#248405: Jul 5th 2018 at 8:54:20 AM

Honestly that sounds super mild, the evac will have been due to the authorities wanting to play it safe (in case it was a terrrorist attack), if she had been trying to deface the statue I would understand people being pissed, but she did a sit in, it’s like when people have unfurled banners from the roof of parliament.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#248406: Jul 5th 2018 at 9:15:24 AM

> it’s like when people have unfurled banners from the roof of parliament.

Well it would more like scaling Nelson's column to be honest

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#248408: Jul 5th 2018 at 9:37:07 AM

@mega: And? That doesn't change anything anyone here has said.

i'm tired, my friend
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#248409: Jul 5th 2018 at 10:01:16 AM

[up] I guess the disclaimer I need to make about myself, is that Park Ranger is kind of my (very unlikely) dream job, so the reaction is somewhat knee jerk.

This sums up my thoughts pretty well.

I’m trying to keep my mouth shut.

I’m failing.

Yeah, it’s cool to protest and I agree with her ideas 100%, but get off the statue. It’s a massive and compelling symbol but it’s also fragile and old and shouldn’t be stood on. Don’t risk damaging her to make your point.

Those copper panels are 132 years old, covered in patina, and *incredibly* thin- around the same thickness as a half dollar or any other coin in your pocket.

Don’t hurt @Statue Ellis NPS. She might agree with your ideas, protestor, but I don’t think she enjoys being stepped on.

Because I am a nerd and I own this and I am stubborn-

Here’s exactly how thick the sheets of copper are on The Statue of Liberty. Nickel included for scale. They’re 132 years old.

Maybe they shouldn’t be stepped on?

Probably.

  1. Find Your Park #Park Chat

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 5th 2018 at 2:24:23 PM

Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#248410: Jul 5th 2018 at 11:19:05 AM

Mueller Taps More Prosecutors to Help With Growing Trump Probe.

The thing that caught my eye (since this is otherwise an example of more "Good on Mueller/bad for the Cheeto) is something I hadn't seen yet:

Mueller indicted 13 Russian individuals and three entities in February on charges of violating criminal laws with the intent to interfere with the U.S. election through the manipulation of social media.

None of the targets are in the U.S., but one of them, the Internet Research Agency, has forced Mueller into another legal fight in federal court. The two sides have been sparring most recently over how to protect sensitive investigative materials from disclosure. Mueller has enlisted prosecutors with the U.S. Attorney’s office in Washington to handle the case.

Another surprise came last week when Andrew Miller, a former aide to Trump adviser Roger Stone, filed a sealed motion to fight one of Mueller’s grand jury subpoenas.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#248411: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:32:33 PM

Yes she got in the way, but that's the entire point of direct action. Pretty much any form of protest or passive resistance is going to annoy someone and thus I think "it ruined people's trips" isn't really a very strong argument against it. Obviously optics matter but since this wasn't dangerous or even unreasonably disruptive I don't think anything's wrong with it.

(and I'll have to echo Native Jovian in that I don't think this was particularly dangerous to anyone)

I'm going to third this sentiment.

We have reached a point now where people are Tone Policing the act of being present in a location and not bothering anyone as an act of protest. How much more peaceful is a protest supposed to be?

Don’t hurt @Statue Ellis NPS. She might agree with your ideas, protestor, but I don’t think she enjoys being stepped on.

She'll get over it. I'm not about to be silenced to avoid hurting the feelings of a statue.

Lady Liberty serves us. We do not serve her.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 5th 2018 at 1:32:53 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#248412: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:39:20 PM

My knee jerk reaction is to wonder why liberals/progressives work so hard to limit what can be considered peaceful protest. I get why regressives do it, they're only for free speech when it benefits them, (so much so that shortly after Trump's inauguration about 20 states tries to limit the right to protest, up to and including bills that would have counted protestors as racketeers, [Arizona] allowed people to run over protestors blocking a roadway, [North Dakota] etc. Fortunately the ACLU fought these tooth and nail and most died) but liberals are often so eager to self-police that they would neuter the protest entirely or whittle what's considered peaceful protest or civil disobedience out of existence.

And if the answer is bad optics and being written off because of it, I want to ask how many of you associate suffragettes with burning P.O. boxes and setting bombs? Or automatically think of civil rights marches being riots? Because those things happened, and even when they didn't, the opponents of those movements were happy to portray them that way or invent such reasons to dismiss them. (Remember, according to the far-right of the Civil Rights era, the Civil Rights movement was entirely a tool of the Soviet Union to weaken and undermine the US.)

You don't have to be Perfect Pacifist People for a protest to be peaceful, and the stone cold fact is that no march or protest will ever be 100% from violence and/or confrontation. Lets not preemptively jump on people over minor inconveniences or daring to use a national symbol as a way to make a point.

Protestors not fighting back when barbarities are done to them does make for better press than violent actions, but honestly, as long as they're not engaged in a campaign of coordinated violence and there aren't swarms of people attacking bystanders or counter protestors ala the way a bunch of the White Supremacists of the Charlottesville march did, it's fine with me.

There's a need for self-policing, but lets not turn our protests into ineffective milquetoast affairs ourselves because we fear bad press, especially when the opponents of a lot of the movements that most of us would back are getting news from a propaganda system that would find a way to paint Perfect Pacifist People as demons straight out of hell.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#248413: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:42:07 PM

[up] I'm speaking from a perspective of historical preservation. There are ways to protest that don't risk scratching the thin, 132 year old layer of copper off the Statue of Liberty.

Edited by megaeliz on Jul 5th 2018 at 3:50:43 PM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#248414: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:42:42 PM

What the Fuck Just Happened Today - Day 532: "My staff told me not to say this."

1/ Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer urged Trump to nominate federal Judge Merrick Garland to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy in a private phone call last week. Garland was Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court, who was blocked by Senate Republicans in 2016. The conversation lasted less than five minutes. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/schumer-urges-trump-to-tap-merrick-garland-for-supreme-court/2018/07/05/ca12f0be-805e-11e8-b0ef-fffcabeff946_story.html

(Points for trying, I guess...)

2/ Trump narrowed his Supreme Court shortlist to Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett and Raymond Kethledge and will announce his nominee on Monday, July 9, at 8 pm Eastern time. Aides, however, said they wouldn't be surprised if Trump announces his nominee ahead of the scheduled prime-time event. (ABC News / Axios / Vox)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-narrows-supreme-court-shortlist-aiming-monday-primetime/story?id=56383077

Trump wants the whole package in a Supreme Court nominee with the search process playing out like a political campaign as he considers a candidate's appearance as well as the look and feel of his or her family. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/04/trump-supreme-court-pick-family-optics-694788

3/ Trump asked his advisers last August why the U.S. couldn't invade Venezuela. Trump's aides, including then-National Security Adviser H.R. Mc Master and then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, warned against an invasion. One official said Trump was simply thinking "out loud." Trump, however, raised the issue three more times last year, including in September at a private dinner with the leaders from four Latin American countries during the U.N. General Assembly. Despite being briefed not to raise the possibility of an invasion at the dinner, the first thing Trump said was: "My staff told me not to say this." (Associated Press / CNN)

https://apnews.com/a3309c4990ac4581834d4a654f7746ef

4/ Trump hired former Fox News executive Bill Shine to lead his communications team. Shine was forced to resign from Fox News in May 2017 over his mishandling of sexual harassment claims at the company. Shine will take over for Hope Hicks, who left in March. (Politico / CNBC / Buzz Feed News)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/05/former-fox-news-executive-bill-shine-joining-white-house-communications-team-694908

5/ Trump's first tariffs will hit $34 billion of Chinese imports starting tomorrow. China accused the United States of "opening fire" on the world with the tariffs and vowed to respond the moment the duties on Chinese goods kick in. (Washington Post / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china/china-commerce-ministry-warns-u-s-tariffs-will-hit-global-supply-chains-idUSKBN1JV063

Mexico imposed the second part of their $3 billion retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods in response to Trump's duties on Mexican steel and aluminum exports to the United States. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/05/mexico-imposes-retaliatory-tariffs-670424

6/ The owner of a Chinese factory says it has been hired to make flags for Trump's 2020 presidential campaign. The factory has reportedly made flags for the campaigns of both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in 2016. "We also make flags for Trump for 2020," the factory owner said. "It seems like he has another campaign going on in 2020. Isn't that right?" It is unclear whether the official Trump reelection organization is the one who ordered the flags. (The Hill / Business Insider)

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/395557-chinese-factory-claims-to-be-making-trumps-2020-campaign-flags

Notables.

Robert Mueller is utilizing additional career Justice Department prosectors in a sign that he may soon hand off parts of his investigation. (Bloomberg / Axios)

https://www.axios.com/mueller-russia-investigation-donald-trump-doj-prosecutors-ca68a4b9-967a-4c4f-bf7a-afa7f4189b5c.html

Trump said he would decide by July 4th if he would sit down for an interview with Robert Mueller's team. Rudy Giuliani said there was "no decision" to announce. (CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/despite-july-4-expectation-giuliani-says-no-decision-on-cooperation-with-mueller/

Michael Cohen dropped the reference "personal attorney to President Donald J. Trump" from his social media accounts. His bio is now blank on Twitter with an image of an American flag.(CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/04/politics/michael-cohen-twitter-trump-attorney/index.html

Trump lied that Obama granted citizenship to 2,500 Iranians in an attempt to sweeten the Iran nuclear deal. Trump provided no evidence to support his tweet, but three senior Obama administration officials who were involved in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action negotiations pushed back on the claim. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/07/04/trump-claims-obama-gave-citizenship-to-2500-iranians-during-nuclear-deal-talks/?utm_term=.4b04bf8663db

Trump's co-author for The Art of the Deal tweeted that Trump "is incapable of reading a book, much less writing one." The Twitter criticism came after Trump bragged about "my ability to write" and having "many best selling books." (Huff Post)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/art-of-the-deal-co-author-trump-incapable-of-reading-a-book-much-less-writing-one_us_5b3d3db2e4b05127cceeca05

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#248416: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:47:48 PM

I think we all just have to agree to disagree.

For some, myself included, if we're putting "potential minor damage to Lady Liberty" above "calling out these inhumane actions" then frankly, we don't deserve her. She's quickly becoming a symbol of nothing. Like, if it were someone doing this to protest, say, Roe v. Wade being repealed, then sure, I'd be irate. But goddamn, "give us your tired, your poor." This is what she's supposed to symbolize.

Some people may disagree with me, and that's fine. But I give kudos to that protester.

[up] $50 says that Pruitt learned about his own resignation through that tweet.

Edited by Larkmarn on Jul 5th 2018 at 3:48:26 PM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#248417: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:49:15 PM

@megaeliz,

Copper isn’t irreplaceable, a couple of scratches aren’t going to bring the statue down, and Lady Liberty does get closed for maintenance and repair from time to time.

I’m tremendously sympathetic to not wanting to damage it, especially because I grew up within sight of the statue and adored it, but I’d rather risk a scratch or two than miss an opportunity to fight back against a repulsive government intent on crushing millions of lives underfoot.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#248418: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:51:28 PM

[up] It's more, I don't really care why they are doing it. I just want them to be off of it.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#248419: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:55:50 PM

Unless she was jumping up and down the risk of damage is pretty much minimal. 1/10th inch copper sheeting doesn't sound very thick, but that's a pretty sturdy piece of metal and there's a support skeleton underneath as well.

They should have sent a poet.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#248420: Jul 5th 2018 at 12:56:15 PM

The ideas that the Statue of Liberty stand for are more important than the physical statue, any damage should be consider not a defacement of the statue but a sacrifice on its part in the pursuit of the ideas it represents. They will become part of the statue’s history, a mark of how when Liberty was challenged the statue was part of that pushback.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#248421: Jul 5th 2018 at 1:00:00 PM

If it is really that fragile, then maybe public access to it should be restricted as to work on fixing it. Unless that is being done now.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#248422: Jul 5th 2018 at 1:00:59 PM

Access is restricted, you’re not allowed to stand on the outside of the statue.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#248423: Jul 5th 2018 at 1:01:37 PM

Speaking of Lady Liberty and Copper, I want to ask why they haven't replaced the copper to look more like copper usually looks. Was the green coloration iconic by the time they first fixed the statue?

The reason I ask is because I know that she wan't green when she arrived at the states.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jul 5th 2018 at 1:01:39 AM

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#248424: Jul 5th 2018 at 1:02:44 PM

That would just make it weaker, copper oxidation actually makes the metal stronger.

Anyway, have a statement on Pruitt's departure.

Edited by rmctagg09 on Jul 5th 2018 at 4:02:39 AM

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#248425: Jul 5th 2018 at 1:02:54 PM

[up][up] That, and you'd have to replace it pretty often to keep the copper color.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jul 5th 2018 at 1:02:33 AM

They should have sent a poet.

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