TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#248126: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:36:24 AM

Comes down to the individual in question, I think. As long as the Democrats select an electable nominee that holds to core party orthodoxy, I think we can accept them. No pressure.tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#248127: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:37:19 AM

In 2008 and 2012, Trump hadn't brought the undercurrent of white nationalism to the surface and semi-legitimized it. The political landscape is not the same now as it was then.

I absolutely don't think it should stop PoC from running, though. Shove it in their faces.

e: by "their" I mean the white nationalists.

Edited by razorrozar7 on Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:37:22 AM

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#248128: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:39:04 AM

Collins has been quite adamant about being pro-choice. She tends to leave herself wiggle room to go "oh, I totally will make a stand unless (insert weasel words here)," but this is actually more than empty rhetoric with her. If she says she's adamant about a nominee supporting Roe v. Wade, I actually do believe her.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#248129: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:41:52 AM

[up][up][up]

The Democrats are almost as big a tent as British Labour, what exactly counts as core party orthodoxy these days other than not being racist, sexist or homophobic and not wanting to delete very large sections of the state?

Edited by DeathorCake on Jul 2nd 2018 at 3:47:27 PM

razorrozar7 Migrated to Chloe Jessica! from Chloe Jessica Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
#248130: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:44:13 AM

[up] how bad is it that we actually have to consider non-prejudice a defining feature of one party instead of a basic fucking standard

Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#248131: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:47:07 AM

Regarding the TX-27 election: it should be pointed out that much of that area is rural and as such heavily Republican leaning. Most cities within the area don't reach a population of 100,000, except for Corpus Christi, which itself is conservative.

It's not like back in the 2000s when the district spanned from Corpus to Brownsville along the coast and had a Democrat as a Rep.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#248132: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:50:57 AM

Regarding the Supreme Court, you can't use a slippery slope argument of "but if we start abusing it, so will they!" when they've already been abusing it. Mitch McConnell refused to even hold a confirmation vote for Obama's SCOTUS pick for no other reason than because he thought they had a chance of giving the nomination to a Republican — which they did, abolishing the option to filibuster SCOTUS confirmations in the process. The norms regarding the Supreme Court are already dead and gone. As of three years ago, the new norm is "no SCOTUS nominations unless the same party holds both the presidency and the Senate".

The GOP stole a SCOTUS seat so they could hand it to the man that stole the presidency, and then another SCOTUS justice retired to give the same man another pick. Screaming about how it's unfair and unAmerican won't do shit to fix the situation. Those two seats will be in GOP hands for decades, and their rulings will influence case law for decades beyond that.

If we have to pack the court to fix that, then so be it. Even if it means the court gets re-packed every new administration, so what? At least we'd be in control of it some of the time. If we do nothing, then the GOP controls it all of the time. They've had a strangehold on it for decades just through luck of the draw — we should have been looking at the first majority-Democrat-appointed SCOTUS for the first time since... the 50s or 60s, I think? But we're not, and may not be for decades, because we insist on playing by rules that the GOP has no compunctions about breaking.

If anyone has a solution that doesn't involve packing the court, I'd love to hear it. I haven't heard one. Abstract notions of seizing the moral high ground are worthless when the GOP can use the SCOTUS to undo Obamacare, abortion rights, gay marriage, and any number of other hugely important issues that will cause real harm to real people.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#248133: Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:56:40 AM

[up][awesome] Well said!

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#248134: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:15:32 AM

Also “packing the court will just result in Republicans packing the court” doesn’t hold, it takes a full congressional majority and control of the White House to pack the court, so there’s a simply solution. Pack the court enough that the Republicans (in their current form) never again get a full congressional majority and control of the White House.

That means packing it enough to overturn citizens united, reinstate the voting rights act and throw out partisan gerrymandering. If we pack the court enough to get victories on all three and sustain those victories for a short while it may well kill dead the current Republican Party.

Trump wouldn’t have been able to win without the death of the voting rights act, republicans wouldn’t have a majority in the house without gerrymandering, Republicans wouldn’t have an insane electoral spending advantage without citizens united, hell Bush wouldn’t have been elected without a Republican Supreme Court.

Without gerrymandering to keep the house under their control, without unlimited spending to let them buy election, without voter suppression to keep democrats from voting and without a biased Supreme Court to throw election in question to them, the Republican Party as it currently stands may well die out.

The Republican Party as it stands is only viable because it cheats, it we remove its ability to cheat we don’t have to worry about them reinstating it, because under fair rules they won’t even get the power to change the rules.

Edited by Silasw on Jul 2nd 2018 at 4:16:41 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#248135: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:25:32 AM

[up]I wouldn't be so certain that even accomplishing all of that would cause an extinction of the Republican Party. The Republican base is still fanatically loyal, all it would take is a bit of complacency at the wrong time for them to come back into power.

Other then that I still agree with the overall sentiment of court-packing. The only thing that would be better is to get judicial term limits but that's practically impossible.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#248136: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:25:55 AM

Kentucky Governor Matt Brevin cancels Medicaid dental and vision benefits after a federal judge blocked the state's Medicaid and Medicare work requirements.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#248137: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:36:46 AM

[up][up] The Republican base is also shrinking, the last two Republicans presidents only won because they cheated to do it.

Yes complacency will let them win, but that’s always been the case, everyone standing around and letting fascists be the only ones to vote is always going to let them win. We don’t deal with these hat by trying to build a system that can survive a fascist takeover, we stop the fascist takeover, we twat stage one.

With court packing there’s also another thing to consider, the only reason Republicans haven’t done it is because they don’t need to, if we ever get a Democrat surpeame court you can bet that the Republicans would pack it, same as they blocked Obama’s Supreme Court nominee, same as they removed the filibuster on Supreme Court nominees and same as they’d kill the filibuster if they had the votes (let’s be honest, Mc Conell would kill the filibuster dead if he could get all the Republican senators to vote for it).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#248138: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:48:04 AM

The GOP isn't going to vanish overnight, but getting rid of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and unlimited campaign donations would pretty much keep them from a majority on the national stage all by itself. They still have regional strongholds, but not enough to actually win the presidency or get a majority in either house of Congress in actual free and fair elections.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#248139: Jul 2nd 2018 at 9:51:49 AM

[up][up]That. The only reason the GOP has not packed SCOTUS is because they do not need to-it has been in their control for 40 years, and that is not going to change unless the Democrats pack the court or impeach the GOP rubber stamps. If/when that happens, the GOP knows they can do the same thing, now without consequences since the Democrats went there first. Even considering those options is all or nothing-either the Democrats do it and stack the deck to make sure they never lose control of any branch of government to the GOP ever again; or they do it and fail to stack the deck, meaning the GOP claws its way back into power and does the same to the Democrats.

The GOP has already removed the last few non-partisan aspects of the Judicial system, once they blocked a nomination and stole 2 seats by removing the filibuster. The only thing preventing anything worse right now is that they genuinely believe they have already won.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Jul 2nd 2018 at 1:22:54 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#248140: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:05:43 AM

And just like that I am back in favor for packing the Supreme Court. smile

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#248141: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:45:12 AM

What the Fuck Just Happened Today? Day 529: Art of the FART.

1/ Michael Cohen will "put family and country first," saying his "first loyalty" isn't to Trump. "I will not be a punching bag as part of anyone's defense strategy," Cohen said. "I am not a villain of this story, and I will not allow others to try to depict me that way." Cohen, signaling his willingness to cooperate with Robert Mueller and federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, said his decision to cooperate will not be based on loyalty to Trump, but rather his attorney's legal advice. Guy Petrillo is expected to take over as Cohen's lead counsel this week once led the criminal division of the U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan, which is the office currently investigating Cohen. (ABC News / Washington Post)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-cohen-family-country-president-trump-loyalty/story?id=56304585

Paul Manafort's personal assistant gave the FBI access to his storage locker in Virginia. The judge rejected Manafort's argument that Robert Mueller had been improperly appointed and lacked authority to prosecute him. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/manafort-assistant-gave-fbi-access-to-storage-locker-testimony-idUSKBN1JP2JS

2/ Susan Collins will not support a Supreme Court nominee who has displayed "hostility" toward Roe v. Wade. "A candidate for this important position who would overturn Roe v. Wade would not be acceptable to me," Collins said, "because that would indicate an activist agenda that I don't want to see a judge have." Collins said she views Roe v. Wade as a precedent that should not be overturned. Trump, meanwhile, will not ask possible nominees for Justice Anthony Kennedy's seat whether they would overturn Roe v. Wade. (New York Times / ABC News / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-abortion-collins/u-s-republican-collins-i-will-not-support-anti-abortion-supreme-court-candidate-idUSKBN1JR1KR

Trump wants to replace Justice Kennedy with someone who has a portfolio of academic writing — but he doesn't want to read any of it himself. Trump also said it's essential that his nominee be "not weak" and that they "interpret the Constitution the way the framers meant it to be." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/we-have-to-pick-a-great-one-inside-trumps-plan-for-a-new-supreme-court-justice/2018/06/30/610dcd4e-7bb0-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html

Trump will temporarily reorganize his White House staff to focus on confirming a Supreme Court nominee. Don Mc Gahn, the White House counsel, will lead the process with Raj Shah, deputy press secretary, focusing on coordinating Trump's message. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/us/politics/trump-supreme-court-nomination.html

3/ North Korea has increased its production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons in recent months. Leading U.S. intelligence officials to conclude that North Korea does not intend to surrender its nuclear stockpile and that it is trying to conceal the number of weapons and production facilities it has. Satellite imagery also shows that North Korea is finalizing the expansion of a ballistic missile manufacturing site, which started after Kim Jong-un's summit with South Korean President Moon Jae-in but before he met Trump. (NBC News / Washington Post / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/02/asia/north-korea-factory-intl/index.html

Trump's national security adviser believes North Korea could dismantle all of its nuclear weapons "in a year," despite signs of increased nuclear fuel production. John Bolton's timeline is at odds with what Secretary of State Mike Pompeo outlined to Congress recently. Pompeo said North Korean denuclearization could happen within two and a half years – or around the time Trump's first term would end. (New York Times / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-usa/white-houses-bolton-north-korea-nuclear-program-can-be-dismantled-in-year-idUSKBN1JR1KP

Trump may hold a second summit with Kim Jong-un in New York in September, when world leaders are in town for the U.N. General Assembly. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/north-korea-kim-jong-un-donald-trump-second-summit-new-york-city-united-nations-628e47de-e62e-41b6-99de-d01c91c8c94b.html

4/ The Trump administration drafted a bill that would abandon America's commitment to the World Trade Organization. The bill, called the "United States Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act," is affectionately referred to as the FART Act on Twitter and would allow Trump to unilaterally raise tariffs without congressional consent. The source described the bill as "insane." (Axios / Business Insider / The Guardian)

https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-leaked-bill-world-trade-organization-united-states-d51278d2-0516-4def-a4d3-ed676f4e0f83.html

Trump's commerce secretary said Trump won't change his trade policy even if the stock market keeps falling. "There's no bright line level of the stock market that's going to change policy," Wilbur Ross said. Stocks slipped lower during the first trading day of the third quarter with markets concerned about Trump's tariffs. (CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/02/wilbur-ross-no-downside-level-in-stocks-to-change-trump-trade-policy.html

5/ Trump said he's not happy with the revised NAFTA deal with Canada and Mexico and he won't sign it until after the midterm elections. "NAFTA, I could sign it tomorrow, but I’m not happy with it," Trump said. "I want to make it more fair, okay? I want to wait until after the election." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/07/01/trump-says-he-wont-sign-any-nafta-deal-until-after-midterms/?utm_term=.e9c657224b54

6/ Canada imposed new tariffs on $12.5 billion worth of American exports and goods. The new tariffs are meant to be a proportional response to Trump's recent steel and aluminum tariffs. Some U.S. products, mostly steel and iron, will face 25% tariffs, and other imports, like ketchup, pizza, and dishwasher detergent, will face a 10% tariff. (CNN Money / Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/834f23eed9504f0f90d7761d57aebff4

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce will launch a campaign to oppose Trump's trade tariff policies. The business lobbying giant is using a state-by-state analysis to argue that Trump is risking a global trade war that will affect the wallets of U.S. consumers. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-chamber-exclusive/exclusive-largest-u-s-business-group-attacks-trump-on-tariffs-idUSKBN1JS0VL

7/ Trump tried to pretend that he never urged House Republicans to vote for an immigration bill — even though he tweeted that exact thing just three days earlier. On Saturday, Trump tweeted: "I never pushed the Republicans in the House to vote for the Immigration Bill, either GOODLATTE 1 or 2, because it could never have gotten enough Democrats as long as there is the 60 vote threshold." From Wednesday: "HOUSE REPUBLICANS SHOULD PASS THE STRONG BUT FAIR IMMIGRATION BILL, KNOWN AS GOODLATTE II, IN THEIR AFTERNOON VOTE TODAY, EVEN THOUGH THE DEMS WON’T LET IT PASS IN THE SENATE." (Politico / Slate)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/30/donald-trump-immigration-vote-tweets-689501

Notables. Senior Border Patrol official Ronald D. Vitiello will replace Thomas D. Homan and serve as the new acting director of ICE. Vitiello currently serves as acting deputy commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, perviously serving as the chief of the Border Patrol. Homan retired last month after serving as the acting head of ICE. The Senate must now approve a full-time director for ICE, and Vitiello is considered to be the leading candidate. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/30/us/politics/vitiello-trump-ice-border.html

The White House is walking back Trump's call for Saudi Arabia to "increase oil production, maybe up to 2,000,000 barrels" per day to make up for decreases in production by Iran and Venezuela. Trump claimed that he had spoken to Saudi Arabia's King Salman bin Abdulaziz and that Salman had agreed to Trump's request. The White House later issued a statement saying that, while Saudi Arabia has the capacity to increase production if necessary, the Saudis will use it "prudently" and only "if and when necessary to ensure market balance and stability, and in coordination with its producer partners, to respond to any eventuality." (Huff Post)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-house-backs-off-trump-tweet-on-oil-agreement_us_5b384439e4b0f3c221a17e7d

A podcast host tricked Trump into calling him from Air Force One by telling the White House switchboard operator that he had Sen. Bob Menendez on the line for him. The radio shock jock claimed to represent the Democratic senator from New Jersey and said he had an urgent legislative matter to discuss. The result was a six-minute phone conversation between Stuttering John and the President of the United States aboard Air Force One, during which they talked about immigration and the Supreme Court. The White House has since launched an internal investigation into how the comedian was able to get through to Trump so easily. (New York Times / Stuttering John Podcast / The Hill)

http://stutteringjohnpodcast.libsyn.com/the-stuttering-john-podcast-4

http://thehill.com/homenews/395077-white-house-probing-comedians-prank-call-report

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#248142: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:47:55 AM

Trump will only stop his trade nonsense if Congress forces him, or he leaves office.

Republicans could end all of this retaliation if they had the courage to stand up to Cheeto, this is entirely on them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#248143: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:49:36 AM

They could have stopped this a while ago if it mattered to them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#248144: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:50:47 AM

They don't want to.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#248145: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:53:24 AM

While the court packing discussion has been pretty convincing, the real question is that even if the Dems get the power to do so in a few years (seemingly a long shot right now), would they take the risk?

But, yeah, I have to second the statements that counting on restraint of the Republicans in Congress when what's largely been keeping them afloat is gaming the system isn't particularly convincing. Honestly, I wouldn't be totally surprised if the murmurs about it get the Republicans to try and preemptively do it themselves/make any efforts somehow illegal.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#248146: Jul 2nd 2018 at 10:53:34 AM

See, I don't believe that there are many hard-core protectionists among the Republicans in Congress, especially in the Senate. These guys don't share Navarro's infantile understanding of macroeconomics, but they know that defying Trump will cause his base to turn on them, and Trump's base is almost the entire rank and file of the Republican party's grassroots support.

I'm not worried about the FART (seriously?) Act, there is no chance in Hell it would even get Committee hearings, let alone a passing vote.

This is cowardice, not ideology.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jul 2nd 2018 at 2:54:34 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#248147: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:02:16 AM

Seems to me that that particular bill was dead the moment it got nicknamed the FART act. Certainly I can't imagine Trump signing it with that name attached, given how much he cares about branding.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#248149: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:16:22 AM

While the court packing discussion has been pretty convincing, the real question is that even if the Dems get the power to do so in a few years (seemingly a long shot right now), would they take the risk?
What's the risk? Either they accept GOP control of the SCOTUS for a generation, or they contest it and maybe get it on their side, however temporarily. Trying and failing has the same result as not trying, so what's the downside to making the attempt?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#248150: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:18:37 AM

Trying and failing could easily turn people off the Democrats who would see the move as anti-Democratic and hurt their chances even more. Or at least, I'm sure that's an argument to be made, and wouldn't be surprised if some people in power would be thinking it.


Total posts: 417,856
Top