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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247976: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:46:53 AM

Maybe I'm being a pessimist but we all thought there was no conceivable way Trump would win and he did anyway.

I certainly didn't think that. If you were paying attention to the polls most people probably wouldn't have thought that either. Trump's chances of winning were always low but not insignificant. That most people didn't know, or refused to admitted it is a different issue.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247977: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:55:25 AM

We're talking about the nation that gave W two terms as President. Remember, improbable is winning the Nobel Prize. Impossible is eating the sun.

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#247979: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:19:40 AM

What about looking into a solar eclipse?

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247980: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:39:45 AM

[up][up]Impossible really is just a word isn't it? tongue

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247981: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:56:25 AM

[up][up][up][up]George Dubya at least had a net positive approval rating throughout most of his first term, even before 9/11. :V

EDIT: Speaking of approval ratings, turns out I missed something earlier; Obama isn't the first president who got elected for a second term in spite of a lengthy period in the negatives; Ronald Reagan had an even worse period from roughly halfway through his second year to halfway through his third, just a little less time than Trump's negative dip - at its lowest point, it was almost as bad as Trump's lowest - and he got re-elected anyway.

But of course, he still enjoyed a considerably higher positive rating before that point, Trump has yet to experience anything past +3.6%. At this point I can't see anything short of a miracle boosting Trump's ratings back to his immediate post-election levels, let alone anything that could be called 'good', now that him being in the negatives has been established as the rule rather than the exception.

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Jun 30th 2018 at 8:31:07 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#247982: Jun 30th 2018 at 5:44:34 PM

Personally, I only voted for Dubya in his second term because I didn't think very highly of John Kerry. Kerry didn't seem to stand for anything in particular; he was shamelessly pandering to every conceivable voting block in order to generate votes. John Kerry stood for... um, well, whatever would get you to vote for John Kerry. And I will simply not vote for an amoeba.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247983: Jun 30th 2018 at 5:46:16 PM

I don't know much about the 2004 election, but I'm leery of that argument considering people were saying the exact same thing about it Hillary, with it not really holding up if you bothered looking into her record or platform.

Edit: Page-topper.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 30th 2018 at 7:46:11 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247984: Jun 30th 2018 at 6:30:18 PM

We're talking about the nation that gave W two terms as President. Remember, improbable is winning the Nobel Prize. Impossible is eating the sun.

My otherwise very sane father voted for Dubya due to Vietnam (he lost friends there) and his distaste for Kerry. My argument, "John actually fought in Vietnam and you, yourself, tell me how it fucked up a bunch of people you were friends with."

Didn't go over.

There was a definite sense of Kerry not being able to get entirely on message, though. My sense was he was for everything Obama was but didn't really have the ability to communicate what he was going to do versus Bush.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 30th 2018 at 6:37:44 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#247985: Jun 30th 2018 at 6:59:22 PM

What really turned me off about Kerry was when he was trying to schmooze up to the NRA and the gun-rights crowd (I was still a member of the NRA back then.) He said: "Crawling through the briars with a twelve-gauge double-barrel! That's deer hunting!"

Um, no. You don't hunt deer with a twelve-gauge double barrel; that's about the worst gun to select for that particular purpose, there are plenty of much better guns for hunting deer. And no competent hunter would willingly crawl through the briars if he could possibly avoid doing so.

The whole thing just came off as phony, contrived, and shameless pandering. Kerry simply didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, and only posed with a shotgun in his hands for photo ops — looking backwards and grinning at the camera, with his finger on the trigger. Fuck no, that's unsafe gun handling. You don't get my vote, you idiot.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247986: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:18:19 PM

Kerry also got swiftboated, from what I remember, although I don't remember how he responded to the accusations or how much attention he paid to them.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247987: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:21:20 PM

Kerry was always a famous anti-Vietnam Vietnam veteran.

The Swiftboat thing was an astroturf plot by the Republican party, though, to destroy his reputation. It forced Kerry in the uncomfortable position of where his status as a veteran was contrasted with his anti-war and hippie positions.

Which AREN'T actually contradictory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

The Swiftboat veterans were all assembled by the Republicans to take him down and it sadly worked.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247988: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:28:15 PM

With time flying by, I wonder when participation in the Vietnam War will become irrelevant. Soon we won't really have Vietnam veterans in any condition to hold the position of US President.

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Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#247989: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:32:32 PM

The other thing about Bush is that he, personally, was sane, patriotic and genuinely interested in the welfare of America and the world. That made him a useful idiot for the rest of the Republican Party (such as Cheney).

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247990: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:36:41 PM

It's terrifying that George W. Bush was/is a moderate Republican.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247991: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:40:23 PM

It always personally made sense to me that Kerry's experiences in Vietnam would have turned him against the war, but apparently it was seen as treacherous in other circles. The way the Republicans treated him was hypocritical given the way they lionize the military and play up their support of veterans and the troops in general.

Bush wasn't good at all, and was a bad president, but I'm inclined to believe he wasn't maliciously evil and selfish in the way Trump is. Then again, I thought Bush was the Republican nadir for a while before the Tea Party happened.

Trump is an extension of the Tea Party. They share his xenophobia, blind hatred for anything Obama did, and self-centered nationalism.

Edited by Raptorslash on Jun 30th 2018 at 10:40:10 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247992: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:43:15 PM

W was a puppet for evil. Trump is that evil.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247993: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:44:44 PM

George W. Bush was a ruthless individual who legalized torture, conducted a wholly unnecessary war, and utterly botched the occupation of Iraq as well as rebuilding. He is a person who made the world a much less safe place than it used to be and may be directly responsible for over a million deaths.

He created ICE and the border fence and the DHS.

The only thing I give him is, "Bush at least understood the Presidency was a responsibility. He took the job seriously. It was not an ego trip for him or a thing he used to line his pockets. For all the people he killed, he didn't seem to hate all non-white people or women."

That was Cheney.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 30th 2018 at 7:45:01 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247994: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:00:27 PM

I remember hearing that the "gateway" into the alt-right are people like Sargon of Akkad on Youtube and Jordan Peterson. I also have a general sense that the right-leaning, self-proclaimed "anti-SJW" crowd are larger and louder than the left-leaning You Tube crowd and are more aggressive about recruiting.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#247995: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:02:58 PM

That's pretty much the size of it.

i'm tired, my friend
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247996: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:08:34 PM

Vox calls it the "Youtube Right".

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AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247999: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:48:00 PM

The entire argument above about Kerry boils down to "I didn't like one of Kerry's ads so I voted for the guy who illegally invaded Iraq." Seriously, that's about the worst reason to vote against someone I've heard in a long time, and I was here for all the brocialist and alt-right nonsense about the evils of Clinton.

I mean, really, someone who admits to having been a member of the NRA, a group that's been totally unhinged since the 90s at least, is accusing John Kerry of promoting unsafe gun handling? Or of "faking interest in the hobby"? Really? That's...uh...pretty questionable thinking.


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