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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247626: Jun 28th 2018 at 5:50:07 AM

[up][up]Part of my problem is that it feels a lot of people would rather face a noble defeat in the hopes that one day things might get a little bit better rather than get their hands dirty to do some actual good.

Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#247627: Jun 28th 2018 at 5:58:09 AM

So I'm in Europe until next month. From the looks of the last few pages of this topic, I'd be better off ignoring politics for the next few years...

Edited by Wariolander on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:39:42 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247628: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:03:15 AM

[up][up][up] If you want a departure from democratic norms that’s what you’re advocating for. As others have pointed out our government is surprisingly resilient, we don’t need to make it into something else.

[up] Things weren’t exactly perfect before 2016 either. We should move forward, not go back.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 28th 2018 at 6:03:51 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247629: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:13:12 AM

[up]Like I said I’m not advocating for moving away from democratic norms, what I’m saying is that the previous norms were not democratic or strong enough to avert this scenario we are now and that simply going back to the way things were before 2016 will not be enough to avert this same thing from happening again further down the line.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247630: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:19:10 AM

If you guys think tit for tat is too much, how about this:

We end the war on drugs, reclassifying most charges as misdemeanors or civil infractions, while also giving most people currently incarcerated for drug offenses full pardons. According to a man close to Nixon the war on drugs was created to destroy the hippies, disrupt the black community, and suppress the black vote.

Second, we dramatically increase the number of House seats. Reducing the number of people per representative would greatly help us by allowing us to get more representatives out of the cities while also stretching the republicans rural voter base thin.

Finally, we give some manner of financial incentive to states based on population as a way of trying to pressure the large low population wind belt states to merge. That ones more of a pipe dream, but the other two are doable.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247631: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:28:29 AM

"

If you guys think tit for tat is too much, how about this:

We end the war on drugs, reclassifying most charges as misdemeanors or civil infractions, while also giving most people currently incarcerated for drug offenses full pardons. According to a man close to Nixon the war on drugs was created to destroy the hippies, disrupt the black community, and suppress the black vote.

Second, we dramatically increase the number of House seats. Reducing the number of people per representative would greatly help us by allowing us to get more representatives out of the cities while also stretching the republicans rural voter base thin.

Finally, we give some manner of financial incentive to states based on population as a way of trying to pressure the large low population wind belt states to merge. That ones more of a pipe dream, but the other two are doable."

1)I agree with this, and it would be the easiest sell.
2)This would require the repeal of the Permanent Apportionment Act, which is unlikely to happen precisely because rural representatives stonewalled every attempt in 1920 to expand the House.
3)This will never happen. Rural states would be hesitant to give up influence in the House, they would be adamant about not giving up senators.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247632: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:31:54 AM

Part of my problem is that it feels a lot of people would rather face a noble defeat in the hopes that one day things might get a little bit better rather than get their hands dirty to do some actual good.

Every great monster in history thought he was getting his hands dirty to do some actual good. Trump, right now, sees himself as the great hero who's willing to do what it takes to do The Good Work and save the world.

What people never realize when they declare that good must be done via a "necessary" evil is that they are no longer doing good. By definition, they have abandoned good and are now doing evil. Most people don't have the self-awareness to recognize that they aren't the edgy antihero saving the world by wielding evil to good effect; they're just the new villain on the block.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:33:34 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247633: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:37:38 AM

If we have the house already, rural representatives are basically irrelevant as rural democrats representatives basically don't exist anymore.

[up] That is a tremendous misread of Trump's character. He doesn't care about doing good and never has. He cares only about himself and what he gets from the country. There are many examples you could pull for this, but you have chosen one that does not fit.

A man that commits a necessary evil is only evil if it generates more evil than good. Or would stand up for a man that refused to save a dozen people because it would require J-Walking as a man that did the right thing?

Or to use a less farcical example, that's my view on the use of the atomic bombs on Japan, an evil act that none the less saved millions of lives.

Edited by BigMadDraco on Jun 28th 2018 at 6:47:20 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#247634: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:53:04 AM

North Carolina GOP Candidate: ‘God is a Racist and a White Supremacist’ Someone needs to tell this idiot that: A) Jesus was not white, B) "God is a racist" is directly at odds with "God is love", and C) Anyone who practices racism, whether directly like this or by endorsing policies that promote inequality and oppression, is a false Christian.

Fucking. Out. Of. The. Woodwork.

Edited by speedyboris on Jun 28th 2018 at 6:55:30 AM

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#247635: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:55:28 AM

So at this point, who are the liberal justices left?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247636: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:55:43 AM

I cannot believe we are still dealing with someone who thinks the best way to deal with authoritarianism is to be more authoritarian.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#247637: Jun 28th 2018 at 6:57:24 AM

[up][up][up][up] Yeah, if anything, to Trump "good" and "evil" are purely subjective labels.

Edited by MarqFJA on Jun 28th 2018 at 4:59:43 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#247638: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:00:48 AM

One thing that can be done is pushing for the NPVIC, which is strongly popular among the population, even red-state Republicans. This requires voting at a state level, as well as calling your state rep.

Florida and Texas might be particularly good places to push this fight, as Florida is already purplish (and big) and Texas is increasingly purple.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247639: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:05:07 AM

When was the last poll for that done? Because from what I understand support for election by popular vote has been dropping among republicans as, well, they've only won the popular vote once in the last 7 elections.

@M84: Don't misrepresent me, I think we should fight the republicans by being at most as authoritarian as they are. Because more than their awful methods it's they're terrible goals that make the republicans bad.

Edited by BigMadDraco on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:09:37 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247640: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:05:49 AM

[up][up][up]I don't believe Trump has stated his position vis a vis moral relativism tongue

He's just a narcissist who's likely amoral.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:05:32 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247641: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:07:25 AM

[up][up][up]From what i've seen Beto is only 5 point behind Cruz and catching up so we may have a chance.

Edited by Kaiseror on Jun 28th 2018 at 9:07:49 AM

Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#247642: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:09:12 AM

Topics like this don't help either: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/261-politics/76758129, especially Elite C saying they will go after immigrants (since I'm a European immigrant) and the S.C. will enable them...

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247643: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:10:06 AM

Why is there a politics board on Game FAQ's?

(also why are Democratic voters such ninnies?)

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247644: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:12:04 AM

[up][up] I can’t tell if that thread is fully serious or not. I really hope it isn’t. Either way, Game FA Qs doesn’t seem like the best place for political analysis grin

[up] The Democratic base is notoriously panicky.

They should have sent a poet.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247645: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:15:30 AM

[up]X6 There isn’t a difference between commiting evil for a good end and refusing to fuck about.

A lot of it comes down to motive, and that’s where many of us split from you. There are plenty of morally right things that the Dems can do to make elections more easy for them, that’s the great thing about being the good guys, you get to do the right thing and benefit from it.

Reducing voter suppression allows more Dems to vote, ending the war on drugs and allowing said offenders to vote gets more Dem votes, getting rid of gerrymandered maps makes Dem votes be worth more, allowing Purto Rico to become a state gets the Dems more Senators, extending voter hours allows more working people to vote (and they vote Democrat, oh and someone asked ealriyer about voter suppression, voting hours in the US are often limited compared to the 10pm close in the UK, and many areas require photo ID), opening more polling stations in populated areas so as to better service the population (and if funding is limited this may mean reducing the number of polling stations in rural areas so as to ballence the number of stations per X number of people) will benefit Dems, bringing back the Voting Rights Act would massively benefit Dems.

Moving beyond that there’s nothing wrong or system breaking about the Dems voting down any nominee Trump makes for anything should the Dems gain a Senate majority, there’s nothing wrong with investigating every judge Trump has nominated for possible impeachable crimes, there’s nothing wrong with impeaching Trump if a majority to convict can be built.

There are plenty of morally sound ways to tilt the scales back in our favour, that’s the silver lining of them being so horrible bent in the Republicans favour, we’re doing nothing wrong by removing their many advantages. But it comes down to motive, we should be removing them because said Republican advantages are wrong, not because we want to add our own illegitimate advantages.

If removing illegitimate Republican advantages does have a side effect of hurting Republican voters (say combining two rural polling stations that service 1,000 people each so as to be able to split an urban one that services 4,000 people in two) than that’s hilarious and ain’t karma a bitch, but hurting them can’t be our motive, if for no other reason than it doesn’t have to be.

[up][up] Same reason we have a political section here? tongue

Edited by Silasw on Jun 28th 2018 at 2:19:26 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247646: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:17:11 AM

I've always hated the phrase "Voting for lesser evil is still voting for evil" because it's implicitly saying we should let the greater evil win. I mean take. Logically, even if we expect the both sides logic behind it, if people consistently voted for the lesser evil, then thinks would at worst get no worse each election, but it will probably get better because the calculus would say you run a guy less evil than the incumbent.

Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#247647: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:19:19 AM

[up][up][up] It's pretty much a board full of Trash Jacks at this point, with the occasional Trump troll.

Edited by Wariolander on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:20:52 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247648: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:19:40 AM

Why is there a politics board on Game FAQ's?

The same reason there's a politics board on TV Tropes?

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 28th 2018 at 8:21:18 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247649: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:22:35 AM

That is a tremendous misread of Trump's character. He doesn't care about doing good and never has. He cares only about himself and what he gets from the country. There are many examples you could pull for this, but you have chosen one that does not fit.

You're wrong. The biggest mistake people make in trying to understand Trump's behavior is believing that he's purely ego-driven and only does things that he thinks make him look good. That he is 100% a kleptocrat, and thus we are spared the horror of a more ideological threat.

But Trump is every bit an ideological threat. He is personally a White Supremacist and he enforces policies that make both him and us look bad on a global stage in order to advance that ideology. He's just also an egomaniacal kleptocrat.

It's not the kleptocrat that wants to build a wall to keep Mexicans out. It's not the kleptocrat that's ripping children away from families. It's not the kleptocrat who wants to ban Muslims from entering the country. It's not the kleptocrat who called Nazis "very fine people". Trump, like every white supremacist before him, sees himself as the Politically Incorrect Hero who's doing what it takes to defend his tribe: whites.

We are long past the point where people should have stopped writing Trump off as a harmless glory-hound just looking to sack and pillage the White House. That is the most dangerous myth about Trump. The man absolutely has an agenda and has done everything in his power to see it carried out, while also sacking and pillaging the White House.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247650: Jun 28th 2018 at 7:23:01 AM

[up][up]Eh, I think TV Tropes having a political thread is less weird then Game FAQ's. The former has a far greater focus then the latter after-all.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 28th 2018 at 7:24:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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