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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247551: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:17:15 PM

I could imagine Trump impulsively agreeing to this just to have the bragging right of being the president who got the 51st state.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247552: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:17:59 PM

[up]x5 Basically, it would have change the electorial map dramatically, since they would almost certainly vote Democrat.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:18:37 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247553: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:18:27 PM

I'm pretty sure the outlying territories are universally blue. If anything, the Liberals should be disappointed because all it will do is amount to the puny, minimal three votes apiece.

If we're looking for a miracle, it's called blue Texas.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247554: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:19:48 PM

[up]You're forgetting that states also get two Senators each. Adding two more likely Democratic Senators would completely alter the playing field.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247555: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:19:55 PM

The right-wing desperately does not want the territories, which are full of nonwhite folks, to get a vote. This is both for practical (it would make elections harder for them) and bigoted (they don't like nonwhite folks) reasons.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247556: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:20:07 PM

Blocking Garland (though that wasn't impeachment, granted) didn't backfire on the Republicans. Blocking any picks he comes up with if/when we we have control back is the only option we have if impeachment isn't realistically on the table.

As a serious question, though, why would impeaching Trump's picks and blocking any replacements be political suicide?

I doubt Puerto Rico would be a red state, especially between demographics and the way Trump handled Hurricane Maria. They will block it if they can.

Edited by Raptorslash on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:21:05 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247557: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:22:05 PM

I don't think any of the outer territories would even consider leaning red.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247558: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:22:33 PM

Blocking or impeaching Trump's candidates would provide ammunition to the fauxgressives and cranks who sit around waiting for an excuse to scream "both sides are equally bad (and that's why you should vote Green/Libertarian/stay home)".

Now, personally, I don't know whether it would be political suicide. Not like those people are reliable voters anyway. The biggest problem would be getting the press to resist the urge to "both sides" the issue in the name of ratings.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247559: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:24:17 PM

I know a Puerto Rican family who are socially conservative (in the traditional, Catholic family values sense) and any who weren't already Democrat changed their tune after Hurricane Maria. Similar to a lot of my family who are also old-fashioned but vote Democrat because of the Republican' sheer racism and the Democrats' role in allowing them to immigrate in the 60s. It's funny how the Republicans' opposition to minority voters creates this tautology.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247560: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:24:24 PM

It would also hurt chances with more moderate voters. It hurt Republicans, though not as much as I would have liked, and right now the Democrats don’t need to wander into any easily avoidable traps like that.

They should have sent a poet.
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247561: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:26:16 PM

Ambar Sonof Deshar: If that is sufficient to say that it is no longer a democracy, but an authoritarian government, then it's a moot point because American Democracy is by your standard already gone.

Me I see people willing to potentially allow every progressive gain made in living memory be undone in the name in the name of persevering "norms", to see justice ripped away in the name of preserving order.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247562: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:26:43 PM

Yeah, as noted, Puerto Rico is full of people who are

  1. Liberal-leaning
  2. Nonwhite
  3. With an ax to grind against President Trump

If you want to know why Republicans are reluctant to give them any voting power, take your pick.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247563: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:26:44 PM

Blocking Garland to spite Obama seems to have paid off for them in the long run, though.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247564: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:27:00 PM

@Alley Oop

It's been pointed out before that a lot of minorities in the USA actually have fairly conservative views and cultures. But the GOP's increasingly blatant bigotry is alienating them.

Edited by M84 on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:29:07 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#247565: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:27:08 PM

••• It's sometimes sobering to realize that we may never see our dreams of a better world realized in our lifetimes.

But it's not really about us. It's about the people who will follow us.

Amen. We'll probably never see the better world, but if we fall apart now people are going to die. The America I wanted to see is dead, but we need to do what we can to keep things from getting worse. And who knows- maybe we'll get a decent ending.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#247566: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:29:45 PM

It's been pointed out before that a lot of minorities in the USA actually have fairly conservative views and cultures. But the GOP's increasingly blatant bigotry is alienating them.

I can attest to this. I sometimes ponder whether or not my mother would be a Trump supporter if not for being a black woman.

i'm tired, my friend
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247567: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:29:55 PM

Even if the world isn't necessarily going to be better off than when we started, I sure as hell don't want us to have left it in a worse state, which is what'll happen if we sit around doing nothing.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247568: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:30:33 PM

Are Cuban-Americans still a reliable conservative block? I know Trump's probably planning to scuttle Obama's deal with Cuba, if he hasn't already.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#247569: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:33:42 PM

As I recall, Muslim-Americans used to be reliable Republicans. Same for Asian-Americans.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247570: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:35:27 PM

If we keep concerning ourselves with norms that now apply only to democrats and never to republicans, we will definitely see ourselves leave behind a worse world that the one we got.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247571: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:35:31 PM

Trump says he got 84% of the Cuban vote but Trump is a firm believer of the principle that 87.9% of statistics are made up on the spot. So take that with a grain of salt. In fact, just take the salt and leave the bullshit on the table.

The Miami Herald estimates Trump's numbers to be closer to 50-58% of the Cuban vote.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247572: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:36:10 PM

[up][up][up]Which demographic produces the most reliable democrats?

Edited by Kaiseror on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:36:21 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247573: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:36:15 PM

If that is sufficient to say that it is no longer a democracy, but an authoritarian government, then it's a moot point because American Democracy is by your standard already gone.

Me I see people willing to potentially allow every progressive gain made in living memory be undone in the name in the name of persevering "norms", to see justice ripped away in the name of preserving order.

Says the guy arguing for the subversion of justice in the name of expediency. If American democracy is "already gone" then the objective becomes restoring and improving it, not replacing it with an authoritarianism that's more to your taste.

I'm all in favour of placing restrictions on the right of bigots to express their bigotry openly, but taking away their right to vote is legitimately an antidemocratic move. Which tells me you aren't in favour of democracy; you just want to "win".

Trump's destruction of democratic norms is the single most dangerous thing about him, and it has to be stopped. And that goes beyond removing Trump. It means that once he's gone he has to be replaced with someone who will restore the norms he trampled on.

The line of thinking you're pushing here is what destroys so many young democracies. Once they get one would-be autocrat, it's over, because the opposition, rather than opposing autocracy, decides to oppose autocracy-that-they-disagree-with and replaces it with their own version. Rinse and repeat until one side or the other imposes a fullbore dictator.

You're pushing a line of reasoning that will ultimately bite you, and every one else, in the ass.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247574: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:36:29 PM

I have (Chinese) Cuban in-laws, and the older ones (they lived during Castro's time) tend to be Republican or at least espouse Republican-leaning opinions, while the ones in my generation are Democrats.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#247575: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:42:03 PM

I have to ask simply:

With Kennedy gone, how can the Dems and their supporters actually fight the GOP's bullshit? What can we actually do besides voting Democratic over four months from now? Like, if we are going to convince people to actually get their asses out and vote Blue, how can we actually convince them if the SCOTUS is now under the GOP's control, and matters such as Roe v. Wade are certainly going to come under immediate attack?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."

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