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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247501: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:29:11 PM

Does congress have the ability to create an entirely new constitution? Because that's what needs to happen

The constitution can be amended you'know, but expecting us to just get a new one isn't very realistic at-all. But without people in Congress, the Presidency, and local governments addressing those structural issues isn't pretty much impossible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:29:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247502: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:29:13 PM

So would it be unbecoming for Democrats to use more scare-mongering of their own in order to convince people to vote?

Something like, 'if you don't vote Blue, Trump will LITERALLY hunt you down accompanied by Russian-North Korean Nazi Klansmen and shove a nuke up your arse because you once shared some hilarious Anti-Trump memes, and once that's done he'll murder all the women, minorities and LGBT folk within a thousand-mile radius before skipping off to start WWIII with Canada and Europe'? :V

...You know, I joke, but I feel such scaremongering - if you want to call it that - might actually be happening right now in many places. Just not as exaggerated as that. :V

How well would that even work in the Democratic coalition? As another poster pointed out, the Democratic base is wider and has more diverse interests then Republican's, and in general, we tend to like more logic based appeals, rather then the emotional ones that Republicans favor.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:38:01 AM

PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247503: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:30:55 PM

Just to clarify, the thing I said before wasn't me suggesting they'd actually put you on a list for voting Blue; I mean, even if they did, they'd be dealing with so many people that taking action against them would be impractical and extremely visible. Just me attempting to explain why they might be hesitant, I guess. I'm bad at this.

[up]I figured; obviously that wouldn't go down particularly well. I guess the real difficulty is putting forth a logical appeal that others won't accuse of being an emotional one, because apparently making emotional appeals is only bad if The Libruls do it. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:36:56 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#247504: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:31:57 PM

Trevor touches on the heckling on officials and on Sanders being asked to leave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljfObaUG2s

Edited by Ominae on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:32:57 AM

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247505: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:32:31 PM

Ambar Sonof Deshar: The can impede Trump, then due to a stacked Supreme Court every single reformer and piece of major legislation we make will struck down. We can stop things from getting worse, but we can say good buy to making anything better.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247506: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:32:49 PM

[up][up] Embedding doesn't work right now.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:32:45 AM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#247507: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:33:39 PM

Oh okay. Thanks.

Put up the YT link instead.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247508: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:35:01 PM

Voting and pressing our congresspeople is pretty much what ordinary non-wealthy, non-politicians can do to fight back.

A lot of what's happening is out of our ability to directly influence, but that's no reason not to do what we can. The Republicans want us to give up and not vote.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247509: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:37:11 PM

The can impede Trump, then due to a stacked Supreme Court every single reformer and piece of major legislation we make will struck down. We can stop things from getting worse, but we can say good buy to making anything better.

We've already acknowledged that. So what? This is what gets to me about so many of my fellow liberals—they want a magic bullet solution that fixes everything right now.

There isn't one. Learn to live with it. Getting a Democratic Congress elected is Step 1, not the end goal. Getting Trump out of office, by election or impeachment is Step 2. Ensuring there's a Democratic President and Congress come the next death or retirement of Supreme Court Justice is Step 3.

Progress is a road. Not a light switch.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247510: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:40:37 PM

No, step three is stacking the Supreme Court. Step four launching a massive disenfranchisement campaign against core republican demographics. We need to make as hard as humanly possible for retirees and rural people to vote.

We cannot act as if norms still exist and fight fire with fire.

Edited by BigMadDraco on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:40:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247511: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:40:54 PM

[up][up] [awesome]

[up] That's dangerous thinking right there. It would be really nice if we Kyle drag them into the twenty first century kicking and screaming, but that's not how Democracy works.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:45:32 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247512: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:42:19 PM

No, step three is stacking the Supreme Court. Step four launching a massive disenfranchisement campaign against core republican demographics. We need to make as hard as humanly possible for retirees and rural people to vote.

We cannot act as if norms still exist and fight fire with fire.

And now you're just giving ammunition to the "both sides" nonsense that causes such voter apathy. No, we don't need to disenfranchise the Republican base. That's stupid and antidemocratic and authoritarian. We need to reinstate norms, not break more of them.

The object is to get rid of Trump. Not become the left-wing version of him. I can't believe I even have to say that.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:44:49 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247513: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:44:33 PM

In a better world I'd simply have people doing voter tampering arrested along with Trump and the other criminals.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247514: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:45:25 PM

[up][up] and [up][up][up][up][up]: [tup]

Edited by M84 on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:45:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247515: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:45:38 PM

The thing is people already buy into and sell the both sides thing. We're wearing kids gloves, they're wearing brass knuckles. We're playing by Marquis of Queensbury rules, they're punching us in the crotch. We played clean, and it has let them elect a traitor.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247516: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:45:52 PM

[up]. The goal should be restoring Democratic Norms.

How we do that is overturn Citizens United, pass ethics laws that apply to Members of congress just as much as the civil service, getting rid of jerrymandering and voter suppression.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:50:54 AM

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247517: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:45:56 PM

There are some retirees and rural voters who are on our side. They're outnumbered, but they're there.

We also don't want to go He Who Fights Monsters. Trying to stop people from voting is becoming Trump-like ourselves. It's authoritarian thinking.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247518: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:47:10 PM

Do we seriously need to explain to people here why voter suppression is bad regardless of who is doing it? FFS.

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247519: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:47:26 PM

[up]x6 Trump is horrific, but he’s not criminal. Eroding the norms of the presidency is plenty bad without being against the law. Liberals shouldn’t make that mistake, it’s pretty much along the lines of what Amber said about hoping for a light switch.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:48:10 AM

They should have sent a poet.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247520: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:47:33 PM

Because there really isn't anything we can do that doesn't literally descend the country into a bloody civil war. Why do you think liberals are freaking out about Kennedy's retirement and realizing the midterms may not change a thing?

Because the Blue Wave was another f*cking unicorn. It always has been. It took like two minutes after Trump's victory for people to declare that it was guaranteed to happen and that it would solve all of our problems. The thing is, even if it happens, liberals have latched too tightly to the idea that it will result in the immediate impeachment of Trump, the undoing of all of his policies and agendas, and put the progress train back on its tracks.

Now those liberals are realizing that the Blue Wave will not instantly solve all problems overnight and, as they do, they're turning on it. Panic will continue until they come across another Politics Solved Instantly button to jump on.

Kennedy's retirement is bad, but it's not an excuse to give up and stop trying. The Blue Wave, even if it does occur, does not mean that credits roll, the good guys win, and evil is slain forever. Endings are a myth.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 27th 2018 at 7:49:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247521: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:49:39 PM

BREAKING NEWS: The Non-Voting Representatives of Puerto Rico have introduced a bill in the House, with the intent of turning Puerto Rico into the 51st State. The Bill currently has the support of 34 Representatives.

I know that right now the environment is bad, but I fully support PR becoming the 51st State of the Union.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247522: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:50:14 PM

With Gorsuch and whoever Trump's second pick will be, our chances of getting rid of Citizens United for the next few decades are a million to one, unfortunately. It's in their interests for it to stay.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#247523: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:51:36 PM

[up]x4 No one here is saying that it will solve our problems. People have been over what it can accomplish here several times.

Edited by megaeliz on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:52:07 AM

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247524: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:52:18 PM

@megaeliz: We cannot restore norms, because we did not tear them down. The republicans have zero incentive to work within the norms because going against them has been so advantageous. We cannot overturn citizens united because the court is stacked for the republicans. We cannot get rid of gerrymandering because the court is stacked for the republicans. We cannot get rid of voter suppression because the court is stacked for the republicans. The only way to get rid of any of those things is to stack the court. It's either that or try to maintain a presence in the game for 2 decades as the GOP continually rigs it in their favor.

Edited by BigMadDraco on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:57:22 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247525: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:55:18 PM

If we're not going to fight for upholding the law and civil society because the Republicans won't, then who will? What good is there in being everything the Republicans are, and don't try to excuse it with different ideology, when the problem is the means? Voter suppression is evil because it's evil period, not because it's only happening to the "wrong" people. And so on.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:55:37 AM


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