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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247476: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:11:00 PM

So would it be unbecoming for Democrats to use more scare-mongering of their own in order to convince people to vote?

Something like, 'if you don't vote Blue, Trump will LITERALLY hunt you down accompanied by Russian-North Korean Nazi Klansmen and shove a nuke up your arse because you once shared some hilarious Anti-Trump memes, and once that's done he'll murder all the women, minorities and LGBT folk within a thousand-mile radius before skipping off to start WWIII with Canada and Europe'? :V

...You know, I joke, but I feel such scaremongering - if you want to call it that - might actually be happening right now in many places. Just not as exaggerated as that. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:14:18 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247477: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:13:04 PM

Speaking of Republican fearmongering, a new GOP add targets the "unhinged" Democrats.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247478: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:15:03 PM

We did tell people how bad Trump's election would be. They responded by accusing us of fear mongering and demanding "give me something to vote for." Of course we had given them something to vote for, so there's just no winning with some people.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247479: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:15:45 PM

A law is only worth anything if there's someone to enforce it. Even the Constitution. While it's definitely still in the realm of "unlikely" there's no actual mechanism to prevent the GOP from just deciding that the two term limit doesn't apply to them. Who's gonna stop them, if the Supreme Court decides it's okay for any made-up reason? How?

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:16:45 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247480: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:16:58 PM

The good news is that such a problem is six years away. It's something to worry about if/when we get there and Trump is still President and the GOP still controls the House and the Senate.

Right now we have to worry about trying to retake the House and Senate. If/when we fail at that we can prep for doomsday.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:16:47 AM

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#247481: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:17:21 PM

I think it's safe to say that this week was the week the Democrats lost the midterms without the midterms actually happening. Why? Because thanks to the new conservative Supreme Court, Democrats in the House will be unable to check on the President because he can get the courts to rule in his favor.

In other words, the midterms in the next five months are essentially pointless. Why bother turning out to vote if you know the Democrats you're voting for can't do anything about it?

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247482: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:18:52 PM

Because that's not actually how the system works and a Democratic Congress can still do a lot to obstruct Trump. That's why.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247483: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:20:04 PM

The Supreme Court interpret the law, they don't enforce it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247484: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:21:23 PM

Congress makes the law. Even in the worst case scenario where the Court would not allow anything Congress passed to become law, a Democratic Congress ensures Trump can't get any of the legislation he wants passed. Which enables a holding action until Trump can be voted out.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247485: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:21:24 PM

Yeah, good thing the executive enforces the law. That takes care of things, whew.

Law is just words on a piece of paper. It has no power whatsoever if the people in charge don't respect it.

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:22:01 AM

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#247486: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:21:34 PM

Even then, Democrats will be completely unable to push through an agenda with popular support if the conservative Supreme Court strikes that agenda down, constantly. The only other option you have is to defy the courts or pack them. Neither is a viable option (the former would probably result in the entire Congress getting dissolved), but there may not be much of a choice.

As for constraining Trump, what if his most unpopular policies are defended by the Court in the name of national security? Literally all of his unpopular decisions are defended by his team under that rationale. How will Dems get around that?

Edited by Mario1995 on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:22:59 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247487: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:21:54 PM

That's still no excuse not to vote, though.

Now that I think about it, are there even many practical obstructions to voting? I know voting in the 'states takes place on a workday, but they take place all day, right? That's how it works here in the UK, maybe things are different there.

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247488: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:22:15 PM

Once again, Congress makes the law. Trump can't get most of his agenda done if a Democratic Congress obstructs him. The goal isn't to vote in Democrats and magically undo all the damage Trump's done, it's to stop him doing more damage.

This entire conversation does, however, go back to what some people were saying about how liberals go looking for excuses not to vote.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:22:31 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247489: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:23:11 PM

Seriously, there's understanding the seriousness of a situation, and then there's actively looking for reasons to justify not trying to do anything about it.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:43 AM

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#247490: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:09 PM

Because there really isn't anything we can do that doesn't literally descend the country into a bloody civil war. Why do you think liberals are freaking out about Kennedy's retirement and realizing the midterms may not change a thing?

Edited by Mario1995 on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:28 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247491: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:18 PM

Voter suppression, unfortunately, is a big problem. The Republicans do what they can to encourage their voters and discourage ours.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247492: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:32 PM

Well, there are executive orders too.

Anyway, you might as well vote. At best, it helps. Which is good.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247493: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:25:01 PM

[up][up][up]Voting is a thing that can be done. You literally said it's pointless. That's you looking for excuses.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:24:43 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247494: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:25:40 PM

[up][up][up][up]It really sounds like you're actively looking for reasons to not vote. Or you're trying to convince the rest of us to not vote.

Edited by M84 on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:27:13 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247495: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:25:59 PM

Maybe some folks are so in despair that they're afraid that if they vote, they'll lose and their opponents will put them on a list of 'subversive persons'? I mean, it's worked that way in other countries, no reason to think it wouldn't happen in the 'states (of course I'm not suggesting that's what would happen).

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:27:36 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#247496: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:26:11 PM

And those structural problems will only be addressed with better congresspeople.

Does congress have the ability to create an entirely new constitution? Because that's what needs to happen

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#247497: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:27:36 PM

It's basically too late for it to mean anything. Any progressive legislation passed for the next ten years will be struck down.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247498: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:27:48 PM

[up][up][up]I mean, that's the thing: there are no guarantees things will get better even with voting. But not voting will definitely not help either. The situation isn't good either way, but one is objectively more likely to help bring change than the other.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:29:34 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247499: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:28:00 PM

This is, again, looking like people either a) searching for excuses not to vote or b) trying to persuade others not to vote.

A Democratic Congress can impede Trump until he can be voted out. A sufficiently large Democratic Congress can impeach Trump, and remove him from office. That is the goal. When they fail to get there, then you can give up and bemoan the end of the world as we know it.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247500: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:28:47 PM

Nothing short of a massive national revolution that not only topples the current government but purges anyone with ties to the old one to prevent continuity. And as much of the 20th century has shown us, the new government is often much, much worse.


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