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CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247401: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:19:13 PM

"I've been looking around and i'm starting to believe the "Blue Wave" is just a delusion. The more I look, the more I notice that people rarely change for the better and never do anything to improve the situation even when they have the means to do so."

Doesn't matter if you think it's hopeless, just vote Blue.

If the shoe was on the other foot and conservatives were being marginalized, you can bet they wouldn't be this far in the doldrums. They would band together, raise money, vote, and win a crapton of elections by doing so.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 27th 2018 at 7:20:42 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#247402: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:20:58 PM

From my point of view, this is magnificent news (Justice Bork, thou art avenged at last!). However—list or no list—I don't 100% trust Trump not to hand the nomination to some incompetent crony with no judicial abilities or philosophy whatsoever. It's hard to rest easy until we hear an actual name.

Moreover, it's not clear that all of the sitting conservative justices (looking at you, Roberts) have the stomach to undo existing bad decisions in any sweeping way. So even if we right-wingers get our dream nomination, it might not lead to the results that I'd most like, and that so many of you fear. Things are not remotely in the bag yet. So take heart!

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247403: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:21:56 PM

"Magnificent news." Yeah, I guess if you hate women and minorities this is, indeed, magnificent news.

People are going to end up dead because of the decisions this Supreme Court makes. They're going to lose access to medical care, lose access to equal protection under the law, lose access to decent wages, and consequently, they're going to end up dead. So crowing about how great this is for you is in pretty bad taste to say the least.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:23:50 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247404: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:21:57 PM

It's pretty pointless to go over why x,y, or z people didn't vote for Clinton. What needs to happen now is to mobilize more people for 2018 and 2020, now with the knowledge that the system as it is can not stand if we want to keep social progress moving forward.

I'm almost certainly going to vote Democrat no matter what happens, but I'll be very disappointed if I don't start hearing about massive electoral and governmental reform coming from the Democrats.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#247405: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:21:58 PM

I'll be honest, I'm getting the sense that people tend to start claiming that the Blue Wave isn't happening whenever something bad happens, even when it has nothing to do with the electorate.

[up][up][up] ...Are you gloating and being encouraging to the opposition at the same time?

How...bizarre.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jun 27th 2018 at 7:23:44 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247406: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:23:33 PM

That's because the Blue Wave is becoming a shibboleth for all our progressive ambitions. It's become more than just winning seats, I think.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247407: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:26:13 PM

The Blue Wave is sort of like Trump's election, whatever the result, a lot of people are going to treat it like it was "destined" to happen, instead of a direct result of whether enough people voted or not.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247408: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:26:39 PM

The Blue Wave has to stop being accepted as a for sure thing. I hope there will be one, but thinking that it is for sure going to happen will only screw us.

When liberals are sure they're going to win, be it because they think everyone is on their side, or that the right-wingers can't really be that bad, they lose. That's the attitude that got us Brexit. It's the attitude that got us Trump. It's the attitude that got us Doug goddamned Ford as premier of Ontario.

So whenever I hear people saying things like "after the Blue Wave we have to do x" I start getting pretty concerned. Because until there is a Blue Wave our job isn't thinking about what we do after it. It's making sure one happens.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247409: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:27:30 PM

[up][up][up][up]That's pretty much been the case every time something bad happens.

[up][up][up]There is a sense that if we don't win now we will not win ever, and while that is technically untrue I won't fault people for feeling that win considering all that would have to be undone.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247410: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:27:38 PM

Alas there are those of us who aren't even US citizens, so there really isn't much we can do except offer feeble prayers. If I could though, I'd teamstack on the winning Democratic candidate in every county, because you gotta have some kind of Democratic figurehead.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#247411: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:29:36 PM

I just want assurances that the Democrats are pulling out all the stops here. If I can be persuaded that they are, I can at least be content that we're doing as much as we possibly can.

Oh God! Natural light!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247412: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:29:44 PM

I guess, there's talking to any other online American friends one might have, and getting them to be more involved in local political activism?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247413: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:30:06 PM

I feel that. I can't vote in American elections, only my own. So the best I can do is sit here, cheer you guys on, and when presented with the opportunity, explain to American voters who don't seem to get it why they have to vote.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247414: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:31:26 PM

There is certainly something to the idea that we should not count our chickens before they're hatched and absolutely never assume victory until it's actually happened.

But honestly I have not seen anyone (here or elsewhere) assume that a Blue wave is definitely happening while I certainly have seen people say the opposite, which is just as if not more harmful.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247415: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:31:59 PM

Just gonna answer this quick before the fighting starts.

I know I keep asking questions about Trump's approval ratings, but now I'm curious what the numbers would look like if they hosted a 'disapproval poll', cutting out those who are merely neutral/flip-flopping on Trump and only leaving those who explicitly disapprove of him.

They poll both, so Trump has both a disapproval raising and an approval raiting, 538 currently have his average disapproval raiting at 52%, compared to an approval raiting of 42%. You can follow both raitings (and compare them to past presidents) here. [1]

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247416: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:33:47 PM

I can't blame the pessimists for thinking it won't; not after the last couple years of disappointment. So long as they don't start playing the "so it doesn't matter if you vote" card, at which point they are part of the problem.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247417: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:34:01 PM

Even in the face of hopelessness, you shouldn't not vote blue. You're giving the enemy the satisfaction of winning easy. I'd sooner go down fighting.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247418: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:35:01 PM

@Jhimmibhob, I wouldn't worry. The authoritarian stooges your party has flooded Congress with will elect whatever radical Trump tells them to.

Rest of us will worry for the same reason, because we carry about things like equality and democracy.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jun 27th 2018 at 8:35:08 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247419: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:36:44 PM

That's the attitude that got us Brexit.

Liberals didn’t count their chickens early on Brexit, the problem was that conservatives were running both the leave and remain campaigns. The entire thing was a bunch of conservatives trying to thread to needle and get the right Remain victory for their personal career, liberals didn’t enter into it due to being massively outnumbered and outspent on the issue.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247420: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:38:00 PM

Say, Ambar; do you have any tips for 'foreigners explaining to Americans why they need to vote'? Like, what would you say are the specific key reasons? As a Brit, I feel I might need to do this at some point, so. Plus, I remember a while back I basically denounced Trump in front of some people who had expressed admiration for him, but then they started making legit-sounding claims that I couldn't counter (at the time; of course I later looked into it and it turned out they were bogus).

@Silasw: Ah, thanks. I'll need to take a look at that.

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247421: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:39:03 PM

@Jhimmibhob, I wouldn't worry. The authoritarian stooges your party has flooded Congress with will elect whatever radical Trump tells them to.

Trump's new Supreme Court nominee could have the Confederate flag tattooed on his face, and a swastika on both arms, and the Republicans in the Senate would nod, and smile, and tell us he's a wonderful person. Various elements in the press would then, in an effort to be seen as impartial and bipartisan, start talking about how he's not really so bad, and did you know he really loves his kids, and the Intercept and other Unicorn Brigade mouthpieces would insist that hey, at least it's not $illary picking the nominees and did you know the Democrats are really just as bad as the Republicans?

I think we know the pattern by now.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:39:08 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247422: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:39:59 PM

I’m just not a fan of the panicky doom and gloom that seems to be so common among the Democratic base. When the Republicans suffer a defeat it invigorates them, we’ve seen time and time again that when things are going wrong they batten down the hatches and come through with as much force as possible.

Right now the situation should be invigorating the Democratic base but it almost seems to be doing the opposite.

They should have sent a poet.
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#247423: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:40:56 PM

Your faith is bracing, Rationalinsanity! From your mouth to God's ears. Still, I'm minded to wait and see—there's damned little that Trump lacks the potential to bungle.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247424: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:41:35 PM

I can't blame the pessimists for thinking it won't; not after the last couple years of disappointment. So long as they don't start playing the "so it doesn't matter if you vote" card, at which point they are part of the problem.
I absolutely agree that it's understandable, and I'm not demonizing anyone for feeling that way (lord knows I have).

Just that by stating that a Blue Wave cannot occur they are willfully or otherwise saying that it doesn't matter if you vote, because in the minds of most people who care there is no point in voting if you don't win (and anything less then a wave is probably a loss). Morale greatly matters and doomsaying regarding the wave doesn't really help with that.

Right now the situation should be invigorating the Democratic base but it almost seems to be doing the opposite.
For what it's worth I'm certainly invigorated by this and I highly doubt I'm the only one.

Still who knows how the wider base is reacting to this.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:42:16 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247425: Jun 27th 2018 at 4:42:03 PM

I’m not giving up totally, all it takes is one Republican Senator to find Trump’s nominee to much and things could be held up, still it’s unlikly, I expect Trumps handlers to be on point and make sure he doesn’t screw this up, they’ll pick a nominee who is a horrific reactionary but can be polite and personable and thus doesn’t upset their sensibilities.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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