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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247351: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:14:20 PM

The real issue come midterms is voter apathy, we need to spread the word as far as we can by any means necessary.

Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#247352: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:15:52 PM

I should note I wasn't saying I wouldn't vote in November. Just that I really don't think it will make a bit of difference anymore. Even aside from the fact I live in Cali, and even if we manage to overcome gerrymandering and voter suppression across the country (not a sure thing, no matter how optimistic you try to be), that doesn't mean we'll be able to do much of anything about this. Even if we win the Senate, the best we can do there is prevent any more appointments until after 2020. We'll still have Gorsuch, and whoever replaces Kennedy, ruining everything before then. And sure, if the Blue Wave happens we can at least block Trump from any more of his agenda. But unless something major happens, like with Mueller (and it isn't blocked/rendered impotent by Trump's pardon and/or the Supreme Court), we'll have Trump till 2020, probably longer. And unless somehow everything he did is able to be undone due to his illegitimacy, or we pack the Court (and will a Dem president and Congress really do that?), social progress here will be ruined for generations, people will die, and then there's the danger to the planet to consider.

And I think a lot of people are hinging way too much on the Blue Wave happening. We believed we'd win in 2016 too and look where that got us. Yes, it could still happen, but if that is the only thing that can save us...then yes, we're in deep shit. We would be for any case where there was only one possible salvation, but especially for this. And don't get me started on what would happen if we lose in November and the building anger explodes into violence.

I'd say that California seceding is starting to look better again, except as already pointed out, going elsewhere in the world isn't going to save us, so why would a state (or even a group of states) separating protect us any better?

So...TL;DR, I'll vote. But otherwise I think I am just going to tune out and hide from what's coming. Not like I had any ability to help beyond voting anyway.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247353: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:17:18 PM

[up][up] We spread the word far and wide in 2016, but they didn't listen. What makes you think they'll bother to listen now?

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 27th 2018 at 5:17:39 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247354: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:17:51 PM

I’d like to point out, again, that there are still significant challenges to Republican control over the government. This is a setback but it’s far from the end of the world, and can be easily overcome if the Democrats play their cards right.

Our government is structured to behave in certain ways, even outside checks and balances. To use the example of the government being reorganized into a monarchy or Nazi state, that simply isn’t realistic. To reorganize government authority to that degree would require radical legislative action, the kind that Republicans simply can’t muster even with a majority. Trump has shown a limited ability to control the enforcement portions of the executive branch, which in turn means he has limited ability to back up rulings from a conservative court.

Democracy is a fragile thing, but it isn’t as fragile as you think. We’ve designed these systems to be self-correcting to a great degree, which we’re seeing even now. The most visible example of this is how little Trump and the Republicans have really been able to accomplish despite their hold over the federal government. It’s simply not that easy to push through a radical agenda, not just for them but for anyone.

The real worry here is the lasting repercussions of things Trump has been able to do essentially by executive fiat, as well as the lasting damage to our image. Both of those can be mitigated by a blue wave in November, which again has always been the plan.

They should have sent a poet.
Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#247355: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:18:52 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Oh, yes it was. I'll concede that many of them were more favorable (barely, but more) to political norms than Trump and company are, but they too were a pack of racist, sexist, homophobic hatemongers, with evangelicalism instead of xenophobia.

Edited by Arkasas on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:20:30 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247356: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:19:56 PM

Also California seceding is stupid beyond not working and being generally insane.

An independent California would be a puppet under Russia, as basically the entire California independence movement is connected to the Russian government and may be on the payrole of Russian intelligence.

[up] They believed in Democracy, understood cause and cared about ensuring that the US lasted for at least another few decades. None of that is true about the current crop.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:23:09 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247357: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:20:10 PM

2016 happened because a lot of people were convinced Trump wouldn't win, even though the actual data said it was an unlikely, but real, outcome. That was one of many factors that depressed turnout.

And while we shouldn't sugarcoat the situation I can't help but thinking going "Vote, but it probably won't matter at all" will help bring in the good turnout we actually need.

Which really does just leave me to believe that, Trashjack and Inogyoma, at least, are more interested in "sounding realistic" than focusing on the things that we actually can have a part in potentially making better. That says nothing about how this isn't a huge deal or how Trump's appointee will most likely be awful.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:21:18 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#247358: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:20:49 PM

Here's one that slipped through the cracks - the Trump administration is, surprise fucking surprise, refusing to defend the ACA in court, meaning that the pre-existing condition clause might get removed through inaction.

If that argument prevails in the courts, it would render unconstitutional Obamacare provisions that ban insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions — arguably the most popular component of the 2010 health care law.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Snipertoaster from Mind Your Business (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#247359: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:26:15 PM

I have to say, it's hard for me to find a silver lining in this whole Supreme Court business. And the Blue Wave isn't something that I'm certain will happen (I really want it to, FTR). All I'm really hoping for is for Trump's successor to be at the very least competent when it comes to foreign policy, and I'm hoping that they'll come sooner as opposed to later.

Edited by Snipertoaster on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:26:09 AM

We can choose to be better.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247360: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:32:17 PM

This is all sounding like deja vu... can I just ask, how's Trump's approval ratings right now? Furthermore, what are the things that sane people (not just his hardcore base, which I've been lead to believe is still tiny compared to the wider population) could concede that his administration has actually accomplished in a good way? If anything? Are they known for their competence in, say, improving the economy or providing jobs, or basically anything besides being completely cuckoo? Anything 'rational' they could use to justify remaining in power? (Again, to people who aren't their hardcore base; they don't need justification)

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247361: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:38:40 PM

His rating is in the high 30s/low 40s. Its built entirely on the Republican base (90%), whereas his support among Democrats is like below 10% whereas Independents are in the 30s.

Rating might be based on the economy performing well (thanks, Obama!), delusions about North Korea, but its more or less the result of the overwhelming majority of Republicans being servile followers.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247362: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:45:43 PM

There's no silver lining in the court case.

Like Al Gore, the choice to be graceful losers about it shot America in the butt.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247363: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:53:46 PM

Mitch Mc Connell promised a Senate vote on a new Supreme Court nominee by the fall

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/mcconnell-supreme-court-vote.html

Charles Schumer called Mc Connell's determination to vote a Supreme Court nominee before the November midterm elections the "height of hypocrisy" for Republicans

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/394479-schumer-height-of-hypocrisy-to-vote-on-supreme-court-nominee-this-year

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:56:50 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247364: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:56:51 PM

Well, it is, but that's never stopped them before.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247365: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:01:56 PM

So exactly when is Kennedy being replaced?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247366: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:02:00 PM

Mitch is an evil man.

I don't use those words lightly.

Also, while I could care less about this versus his other crimes in my state, he's also tabled the passing legalization of marijuana in Kentucky for medicinal purposes so it can't be implemented.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#247367: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:05:20 PM

@RationalInsanity: Figures. What I'm getting at here is that, though I'm sure I'll be called naive for saying this, I seriously don't see them deciding to up and declare an authoritarian Nazi state and succeeding.

Trump is known for many things but I'm fairly certain subtlety is not one of them; if he decided to just dispense with the pretense of democracy, he'd go all the way. The result would be riots across the country, maybe even a second civil war, simply because all the classic concepts of freedom, liberty and all the other buzzwords are so firmly entrenched in the American psyche that if Trump's people went down the road of obvious anti-freedom, no way are the people just going to shrug and say 'well, we tried'.

Therefore, the only road left to them is a subtle undermining of the country's internal systems - but again, Trump is not subtle; if he was I'm sure his approval ratings would be much higher than they are. It feels like everyone knows how blatantly nuts he is - again, besides his hardcore base. By contrast, his best buddy Vlad Putin is in the position he enjoys because he's at least a little sane and thus knows how to do things subtly.

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247368: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:19:58 PM

Republicans don't care about putting kids in cages. Riots can be stopped by military force (and the Republicans still won't care). Voters can be disenfranchised (especially easy if you criminalize the protesters).

I have zero faith in anyone waking up one day and saying "wait a minute... maybe Trump is the bad guy!" No matter what he does. More likely they'd applaud him showing the libtards who's in charge.

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:21:37 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247369: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:24:04 PM

This is why I keep looking at people who say "impeachment is a political act."

If you don't establish crimes as things to remove the President over, those things becomes defacto legal.

You need to remove the President so the army DOESN'T follow him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247370: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:25:02 PM

I imagine if the GOP tried to turn America into a fascist state I doubt they would get much support from the military.

Edited by Kaiseror on Jun 27th 2018 at 5:26:52 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247371: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:26:19 PM

"You can't scare me with the Supreme Court" said the privileged white kids in 2016. Well, Trump's about to get his second Supreme Court Justice. Are you scared now?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247372: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:26:19 PM

In that hypothetical, I'd imagine that different branches would respond differently.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247373: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:26:55 PM

The President has literally talked about removing due process, and people still support him. Literally nothing matters to them except whose team is winning. This idea that we still have shared "American Values" or that there's a line even they wouldn't happily cross seems disingenuous to me.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#247374: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:31:01 PM

Disney won anti-trust approval of their purchase of 21st Century FOX, Inc. after they agreed to sell off FOX's 21 regional sports networks.

Reminder, this doesn't include FOX channels like standard FOX, FOX News, or FOX Sports.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247375: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:31:40 PM

[up]x3 Indeed. IIRC, Trump polls better with the Army and (especially) the Marines than he does with the Navy and (especially) the Air Force. In all services, he also polls much better with recruits and (especially) reservists than he does with officers.

So expect his Stormtroopers to be from those demographics.

[up][up] Yeah, expecting even a little bit of humanity and decency from most Republicans is just too tall an order anymore.

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 27th 2018 at 6:38:22 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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