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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247326: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:37:33 PM

@247235 - Crimson Zephyr

Yeah that's my problem here. It's not that we can't undo it if we keep fighting, it's that it's unlikely to bear fruit in our lifetimes. And for some people that's too much to deal with. I have the fortune to survive this, assuming Trump doesn't go full Lysenko on the "intelligentsia", but a lot more people will be thrown under the bus.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:38:45 AM

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#247327: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:37:41 PM

New Zealand or Canada for me. I just have to finish my degree and I'll be all set.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247328: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:38:55 PM

There are no checks left. The GOP has control over all three braches and shown full willingness to priroritize tribalism over everything else. There's legally nothing stopping them from making "sodomy" illegal again, or throwing any minorities they want in concentration camps with the smallest of excuses. Given that they also control voting rights and voting laws, it's also relatively simple for them to ensure that they will never lose power again, ever.

While I don't recommend just giving up forever, I also wouldn't be especially surprised if this turns out to be the literal death of democracy in America. I think it's dangerous to overestimate the durability of democratic values: we've seen time and time again how fragile these institutions are worldwide.

I doubt armed revolution would be very effective either though.

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:39:48 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247329: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:40:10 PM

Yeah that's my problem here. It's not that we can't undo it if we keep fighting, it's that it's unlikely to bear fruit in our lifetimes. And for some people that's too much to deal with.
I don't see how this is true, yes the Supreme Court being held by reactionaries is terrible but the legislature will still have power and if we can take it then I think it can absolutely bear fruit well within our lifetimes.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:42:01 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247330: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:40:43 PM

Its worth noting that gay marriage is now at risk, as Kennedy was the swing vote on that. While the SC doesn’t like overturning previous desicion they could still chose to reinterpret the gay marriage desicion so as to allow a ‘religious freedom’ ability to block a marriage.

Also I have to point out that Kennedy’s timing isn’t accidental, if he’s waited till January and a possible Dem senate he could have been replaced with someone ideologically similar to him, but now, he’s going to be replaced by the most bigoted asshole Trump can find, there’s a real risk of Justice Roy Moore happening out of this. Kennedy timed this deliberately so that he’d be replaced by a bigoted reactionary instead of a moderate.

[up] Thing is the courts are the only thing stopping the suspension of voting rights, and they may now not be willing to prevent that.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 27th 2018 at 8:42:41 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#247331: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:47:48 PM

[up]

On the plus side, such a "religious exemption" would almost certainly take the form of someone objecting to performing the ceremony, rather than banning gay marriage outright. On the down side, certain conservative areas would have that be effectively identical due to citizens in that area all holding that gay marriage is evil.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#247332: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:48:58 PM

I didn't need any more incentive to vote for Beto...but now it's more than a guarantee for me!

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247333: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:49:09 PM

They control all three branches. They can do whatever the fuck they want. They have no obligation to actually attempt to interpret the Constitution or precedent in good faith. That's the very first thing they can throw out if they want to.

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:49:26 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247334: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:50:27 PM

Thing is the courts are the only thing stopping the suspension of voting rights, and they may now not be willing to prevent that.
Voter suppression efforts are not a new thing and are obviously rather bad, but by their very nature they are most effective when elections are close (like the 2016 election). A wave or just higher turnout can overcome them and thus they are not a unstoppable obstacle to gaining political power.

I didn't need any more incentive to vote for Beto...but now it's more than a guarantee for me!
Same.

Well not for Beeto (for the obvious reasons) but my already strong intention to vote come midterms has only become stronger.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:53:08 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247335: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:51:48 PM

Haven't they had all three branches for two years at this point?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247336: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:52:11 PM

[up]They have.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247337: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:53:04 PM

I'm not sure people understand this. The Supreme Court can say whatever they want with a simple majority, and there is no higher law to appeal to. Law stops right there. The "check" to their overwhelming power is the executive and legislative branches controlling appointments. As long as they can get their cultists to keep voting for then (or just rig the votes if they're lazy) they could literally and legally appoint Trump king tomorrow. There's nothing stopping them.

Edited by Clarste on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:55:03 AM

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247338: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:54:43 PM

The difference is that Kennedy, while conservative, wasn't a bugfuck insane tribalist. He was the only person allowing the liberal victories like gay marriage through.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247339: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:56:59 PM

Whether this makes it more difficult or anything else isn’t really relevant. Sure, this is probably going to set back Democratic efforts. That doesn’t mean those efforts are in vain, or that the plan has changed in any way.

The Republicans still have institutional inertia against them, which puts them in a challenging spot regardless of how many branches they hold. Come midterms, we’re still going to vote blue and attempt to sweep the senate. If we’re successful, we’re still going to use that high ground to block what we can until 2020. The plan hasn’t changed at all.

Doom and gloom is the most pointless pit we can fall into at this point in time.

They should have sent a poet.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247340: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:57:48 PM

Democracy is fucking fragile. The "rule of law" only means anything if everyone agrees to respect it.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247341: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:58:32 PM
Thumped: Extreme positions are not tolerated here. We don't care if they're sincere or you're just trolling. Either way, the forums don't need this sort of thing.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247342: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:59:17 PM

I mean, I'm definitely voting, but it couldn't hurt to have a plan to escape the country on short notice either.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247343: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:59:44 PM

Quite. This is a massive hit. Once Kennedy's replacement takes his seat, Republicans will move from control of two branches and having to fight for their agenda in a third, to complete uncontested domination in every part of the government. There will be no battlefields left to fight on.

We still have a chance to do some measure of damage control in November, but if that chance comes and goes without bearing fruit...well, that's it, then, isn't it? Two years of absolute unchecked power over all government institutions is more than enough to destroy the very foundations of freedom and democracy in the United States.

It's the specific doomsday scenario that the three branches were meant to safeguard against in the first place. It's what everyone was afraid of after the 2016 election. We've been safeguarded to some extent because of a contested Supreme Court but we're about to lose even that much.

What do you even do at that point? The United States falling into an authoritarian state run on ideological fanaticism and dictatorial ego-wanking is pretty much a Worst Case Scenario for the planet Earth. Even if you left for a different country, the harm would find you.

Whether it's the collapse of the global economy, the ever-increasing acts of military interventionism, or even just the fact that the United States is totally in a position to accidentally kill all human life on Earth by polluting even harder, our nation's ability to cause immense damage no matter where you are or whether you're even a citizen of our country is unprecedented.

Make no mistake, we need a big win in November. This could easily be the single most important midterm in the history of the United States. So everyone needs to make absolutely sure that they get the f*ck out there and vote blue.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:02:53 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247344: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:00:55 PM

Talking of fleeing the country always strikes me as odd when it's been pretty well-established that getting away from Trump and GOP influence at this point is basically impossible. They're going to take the whole world with them, if they can.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#247345: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:07:47 PM

Was it a waste for Jews to flee Germany during WW 2? All I'm saying is that the only thing stopping us from becoming Nazi Germany over the next year is the Republican party's respect for traditional norms of governance.

Which I personally don't have much faith in.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247346: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:10:05 PM

I mean, phrasing that as "All I'm saying is..." strikes me as oddly dissonant for what you're worrying about.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:10:04 AM

Arkasas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#247347: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:10:48 PM

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to mention at this point that wingnuts just as fanatical as these and twice as unified and competent had total control of all three branches of government from 2002 to 2006 and we survived. Wouldn't recommend joining the military anytime soon, though.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247348: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:12:58 PM

[up][up][up] It wasn't a waste for German Jews to fly the coop, but Germany wasn't nearly as powerful back then as the US is now. Make no mistake, if Nazi Germany was that powerful, no one on Earth would ever be safe from them.

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 27th 2018 at 5:14:01 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#247349: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:13:26 PM

The one downside to packing the courts, necessary as it may be, is that when the GOP comes back into power they'll follow suit by packing it in the opposite direction.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247350: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:13:54 PM

On the plus side, such a "religious exemption" would almost certainly take the form of someone objecting to performing the ceremony, rather than banning gay marriage outright.

Or a public official objecting to their office issuing the marriage documents.

Once Kennedy's replacement takes his seat, Republicans will move from control of two branches and having to fight for their agenda in a third, to complete uncontested domination in every part of the government. There will be no battlefields left to fight on.

Not completely, but it gets us one step closer, with Kennedy gone the only conservative justice who can be expected to care about the longturn preservation of norms is Roberts, he is now going to be the only bullwark against totally insane shit like the reintroduction of segregation or "literacy tests".

[up] If not when, a sufficiently packed court could institute enough voting reform to prevent the current reactionary nutjobs in government from ever gaining control over both Congress and the White House again.

[up]X3 The GOP was nowhere near this craz during the Bush era.

Edited by Silasw on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:17:56 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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