TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#247301: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:43:30 PM

[up]I would not consider that a positive, considering that American mainstream conservatism is a fucking disaster.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#247302: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:45:42 PM

[up][up] Mc Connell was the one who killed the fillibuster in 2017, thank him. Also, this week alone, Gorsuch got to be the decider in crippling unions even further and allowing the "totally not discriminatory" travel ban. Tell me again how him not being too extreme mattered in those.

Edited by Grafite on Jun 27th 2018 at 8:49:41 PM

Life is unfair...
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247303: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:52:20 PM

I’m curious as to whether this might actually serve to radicalize Democrats more.

It’ll be interesting to see if there is a push for judicial term limits or age limits like other Supreme Courts around the world have.

I sincerely hope that Democrats don’t decide to take the “high road” on this. They may not like it, but the politicization and polarization of the courts make the current situation untenable.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#247304: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:54:10 PM

Reid abolished the filibuster for lower courts in 2013 because the GOP were stonewalling and refusing to allow any judicial appointments to go forward, but they explicitly kept SCOTUS appointments as needing 60 votes. Then McConnell stonewalled on Obama's judicial appointment, and Democrats in Congress didn't fight it tooth and nail because they thought Hillary was going to win and there was no way that McConnell could stall for her entire term.

Then when Trump's appointment rolled around and the Democrats filibustered his confirmation, McConnell nuked the 60-vote requirement for SCOTUS nominations.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247305: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:57:54 PM

[up]x2 I'd argue that it is better for Democrats to give Republicans a Pyrrhic Victory; of course they should all vote No to any pick Trump nominates (unless it's someone who's actually decent, fat chance with Trump), but they should not do anything to stop the Republicans from getting a Judge in. Not only are there few options to do so, having an Open Court Seat for 2018 will just make Republicans come out and vote, which could mean trouble for us.

Let Trump have his Radical in court, and come 2020 (when Democrats will almost certainly have both Congress and Presidency), have the Democratic Congress help the Democratic President pack the courts.

[up] It tells you a lot that even when the Filibuster is gone for court appointments, many of Trump's appointees still aren't getting seats in courts.

[down] One thing I would like to point out, though, is that even a heavily leaning Court isn't immune to realizing they can't just force their agenda forever; after FDR's court packing attempt failed, the Court Justices (who were for the most part Conservative) realized they were in danger if they kept shutting down his agenda, so they started allowing many of his policies to stand.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:00:34 AM

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#247306: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:58:11 PM

Well, Reid did it for all levels except the Supreme Court, which set a precedent but I’m sure Republicans would have still nixed the filibuster to make sure their nominees got through.

The problem for the future is that even when Dems regain control, any law they pass that Republicans don’t like (so essentially any law that they pass) will be subjected to hundreds or thousands of lawsuits, often frivolous, attempting to get it overturned. Those suits will be brought to Trump judges, appealed to a Trump Supreme Court, and have its fate decided by Trump Justices, who will be putting the kibosh on progressive laws for decades to come.

It’s a grim picture. Maybe not hopeless, but exceedingly grim.

Personally, I’m going to burnish my credentials to make it easier to live elsewhere. I’ve been saying since election night 2016 that the damage would last decades, and thanks to Congressional Republicans, it’s looking like my prediction is, sadly, coming true.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#247307: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:07:15 PM

Yes, this is going to suck, and it's going to suck for a while if we don't pack the Courts soon, but it's not the end all, be all. America, by virtue of being a Democracy and a Republic, is not a nation where things are set in stone. As history has shown, we are a nation that is continually marching towards the right side of the issues, even if we have to kick and drag half of the nation along with us to do so. But we have to make sure it happens; if we give up now, even in the darkest of moments, then it will all come undone, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
I think you underestimate how much damage a conservative court will do to the country for decades maybe even the next century. We are all seriously screwed, 'grim' is the biggest understatement of the century.

With the stuff that has been done in Congress in general the only thing actually keeping everything in check was a semi-sane Supreme Court....

Edited by Memers on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:09:19 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247308: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:07:35 PM

It's not game over for social progress, but it's going to make things even more difficult, and it's going to burnish all the torches-and-pitchforks, slash-and-burn revolutionaries of the left as another bad side effect.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#247309: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:10:55 PM

You mean "know when we're defeated instead of desperately clinging onto false hope"?

Not only are the Democrats far from defeated, that’s a losing attitude for politics in general. The Republicans have gotten as far as they have by never ever admitting defeat. Politics is a mind game and total victory isn’t actually possible, so giving up is just about the worst thing you can do.

They should have sent a poet.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247310: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:12:18 PM

I don't care how fucking depressed this makes all of us. Just vote and vote Blue.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:12:16 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#247311: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:13:15 PM

[up]x4 Its not even a 'game over', we are going to step backwards 70 years back into the 50's like the republicans want.

Edited by Memers on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:15:01 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#247312: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:14:31 PM

[up][up][up] It's not game over, it's just that we went from Nintendo Hard to "Every Mook is an SNK Boss" hard.

Like, I don't think anyone is advocating rolling over and hiding in a hole. But we're certainly entitled to a "oh, fuck me sideways."

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#247313: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:16:34 PM

A lot more people are going to suffer in the short term, but that doesn't mean it can't eventually be overturned or that there's no point in shoring up the "infrastructure" so to speak. The problem with political radicals is they tend to think exclusively in the short-term; if it isn't achieved fast, it isn't worth doing at all, or if it isn't immediately reversible, then it's time to break out into the streets. This is a heavy blow, but if we don't concentrate on the areas where we can still make a difference (e.g. the Blue Wave) and fight where we can, then we're no better than the willful accelerationists.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#247314: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:18:10 PM

@archonspeaks: I still would undeniably encourage everyone to vote straight blue in the next elections, if only to mitigate the damage, but even I am finding it really hard to see this as not very damaging.

The Supreme Court made two stunning decisions to our side just this week and that was with Kennedy. So for the next fifteen years or so, the Court will be making nearly only Trump approved rulings and scaling back the progress I thought could be made with a blue wave this year.

Edited by Grafite on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:18:09 AM

Life is unfair...
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#247315: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:20:25 PM

And there's nothing for this new court to say in 2019 in 5-4 that Trump has the right to Pardon himself.

Fuck.

New Survey coming this weekend!
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#247316: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:21:36 PM

[up]

Maybe we should start a campaign to get an amendment installed that explicitly prohibits that, then?

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:27:32 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247317: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:22:53 PM

No Republican is going to make it impossible for Trump to absolve himself of criminality. Getting an amendment to the Constitution is a high hurdle.

In any case, nothing lasts forever, but none of us are going to live forever, and I'm sort of despairing at being an old man before Trump's filth is washed away.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:26:36 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247318: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:26:23 PM

[up][up][up] At which point, I fully expect that people are going to get violent in response to that blatant abuse of the law. Not only would that fire up the GOP and its base all on its own, if Trump himself is killed, the American fascist movement will have a martyr for their abhorrent cause. If everything going on and being horrible right now is the frying pan, that would be the surface of the sun.

[up] At what point did you expect to survive long enough to be an old man in Trumpland?

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:29:06 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247319: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:29:10 PM

We just lost Lady Justice. That's a pretty huge hit.

We need to win big in November. We need to. If the Republicans succeed in quashing the Blue Wave, then they will have control in all houses of government. As power goes, that's pretty absolute. What checks will be left?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:30:59 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#247320: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:29:32 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
New Survey coming this weekend!
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#247321: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:29:54 PM

No Republican is going to make it impossible for Trump to absolve himself of criminality. Getting an amendment to the Constitution is a high hurdle.

Even if 2/3 of Congress won't, we can push for 2/3 of State legislatures - which have proven a bit more willing to push back against Trump - to do so. Hell, just invoke Bill Clinton if we need to - ask how they'd feel if he'd decided to just pardon himself when being impeached.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#247323: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:31:55 PM

I've been pretty adamantly against the attitude of fleeing to other democracies, but if we don't get that Blue Wave now, I might start revisiting that opinion. 2019 might come and reignite some of that hope. But it could just as easily be the time to pack it in and start asking hard questions like, "Is liberty in America really, truly dead?"

November is our nation's chance to summarily reject Trump and everything he stands for. If we don't, if America stands with Trump in light of everything that's happened, then I think that means something about the soul of this country and where it's going to be for the foreseeable future.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:35:05 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247324: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:31:57 PM

Trump pardoning himself would be political suicide for the GOP. While their base would tolerate it, no one else would. Plus, there's the whole probable riots thing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247325: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:37:27 PM

"At what point did you expect to survive long enough to be an old man in Trumpland?"

I'm well-off, a man, in good health, educated, employed, and an American citizen. Granted, I'm brown, but I'm among my own, politically, in Greater Boston. I think I'm on the right side of enough privilege criteria to live a long life. No, I'm probably going to witness this whole shitshow firsthand, primary historical source style.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Total posts: 417,856
Top