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CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247276: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:28:14 AM

Packing the court is risky. FDR tried it when he had the strongest Democratic majority in the 20th Century and it was stopped cold.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#247277: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:30:33 AM

It's not like there's much alternative. A Trump-picked court will practically by definition betray its entire purpose.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247278: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:32:41 AM

[up][up]As stated there isn’t really any other option unless you want the court to be ruled by reactionaries for the next generation and a half.

I’m not sure if in these more partisan times if court packing would be harder or easier then in FDR’s time. I guess that will depend on the non-right wing media.

Edited by Mio on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:34:47 PM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247279: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:35:17 AM

The Republican-only 'Moderate' Immigration Measure failed worse then the Conservative 'SAF' Act, only getting 121 Votes for. 301 Democrats, 'Moderate' Republicans and Teapublicans all voted against it.

So, while today has been pretty hard, we at least won't have Trump making legal Immigration harder, and building a terribly stupid wall. Still, Dreamers are in danger. We need November to be pulverizing for Republicans, and extraordinary for Democrats.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#247280: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:39:44 AM

The only hope is that Trump picks someone so horrible (as in Moore) that a Republican senator votes no (and Mc Cain dosn't vote) and the entire thing drags on until January, with the Dems picking up the senate and then blocking the seat until 2020.

Still that's an absurd pipe dream, in reality Gerrymandering is now safe for 30 years and there's a real risk of abortion being outlawed again.

To top it off if the seat is still in limbo come November the back that it's in play could result in Republican turnout skyrocketing.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247281: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:49:15 AM

I suspect it will motivate turnout on both ends.

You know, unless people somehow blame Democrats for "losing" the court...

Abortion getting outright outlawed in the US sounds like a longshot, most likely it goes down to the states. Which means patients traveling to blue state or even Canada for the procedure. And you know, less safe methods and general damage to individuals, families and societies.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#247282: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:54:54 AM

Well, turning around things from the Trump debacle might have just gone from a 30 to 50 year effort. The worst thing is Kennedy's resignation is effective July 31st. Couldn't make it sometime in January, huh? I don't want to begrudge an almost 90 year old man for not dying at his job, but goddamn, the timing sucks for what I see as the right direction for this country.

I just wish like hell I could have sped up the buyer's remorse that people in places like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are feeling right now, and made them realize the depths of the stupidity of either not voting or voting Trump back in 2016.

Regarding Occasio-Cortez and Crowley: having only listened to a bit of radio debating with the two, Occasio-Cortez seems bright and like she has a good grasp on issues, or at least certainly knows how to present herself that way. She doesn't seem like an outright uncompromising ideologue on several issues, and time will tell.

In the end I think the election was partly a matter of changing demographics, and partly it reminds me of an article I shared a few weeks back where Republicans were worried about their Reps in "safe" seats having gotten lazy. The Republican leadership was saying that far too many reps had gotten used to being able to take the seat for granted and hadn't run a hard race ever since. (Crowley first got the seat practically by default, and hasn't faced much if any challenge since.) Things like skipping the debate and being a bit of a non-entity in his own district don't help Crowley's case on the matter.

(While I feel some of Occasio-Cortez' plans are overly ambitious in general, the one point I feel like Crowley really made over her was about the issue of ICE. Occasio-Crotez wants to get rid of it and build a new agency from scratch. Crowley pointed out that not only would it be near impossible to get rid of ICE while Trump and Sessions are in their current positions, if it somehow happened they would simply shift those duties to another department and force it to do the same things or worse. On the other hand Crowley said that all ICE needed for now was new people running and supervising it, but that only does so much good if you have large swaths of agents who joined because they enjoy kicking around and kicking out darker skinned people with "funny" last names.)

As others have said, I worry about the possible loss of expertise and influence, (especially when it comes to navigating the labyrinthine rules of Congress, which I loathe since most of them are designed to put more power in the hands of party bosses and stifle what can come up for a vote) not to mention what happens when she hits the cold reality of spending a good chunk of her term having to raise money all over again, (although due to how blue her district is, maybe that won't be as much of an issue for her) and deal with all the tedium of being in office. If she does well, it can come out as a net plus. If she doesn't, then it can come out as a negative, especially if she gets discouraged after a term or two and someone worse than either her or Crowley rolls into the spot instead.

So in short, my attitude is that of the Zen master: "We'll see."

Edited by TheWanderer on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:57:51 PM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247283: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:02:57 PM

Has Kennedy stated how soon he's going to retire?

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#247284: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:04:35 PM

July 31st. See the first couple of lines from my post on the bottom of the previous page.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247285: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:09:13 PM

Fuck. That is bad news about Kennedy.

I think there’s a strong argument against lifetime appointments for judges, especially since it’s become so intensely partisan.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247286: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:09:59 PM

Huh, that's not good. So, on that hypothetical court-packing plan, how many more Justices would you want to add?

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247287: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:13:17 PM

Well, this country is now well and truly fucked for generations to come. Thanks a fucking lot, everyone who refused to vote for Hillary. I hope you're all fucking happy with the Crapsack World you forced us all to live (and almost assuredly quickly die) in.

Not only do I need a drink right now, I never want to be sober again for the rest of my life.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#247288: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:15:05 PM

So... this has been a horrible week for Democrats, hasn't it?

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247289: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:16:55 PM

[up]x3 6, for a total of 15, like what FDR wanted to do.

Personally, if I was in charge of the USA and I wanted to pack the courts, I would ask Congress to make it a rule that all High Courts in all States, and the US Supreme Court, have 15 Justices, no more no less. I would also try a compromise of 5 Conservative Justices, 5 Liberal Justices, and 5 Moderate/Independent Justices as mandatory just for the Supreme Court.

[up] Yeah, it has. Mostly because of Gorsuch.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:17:22 PM

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247290: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:17:10 PM

[up][up] If anything, Kennedy alone has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that all of our momentum, our polling, our special election wins, our demographic support, our everything was all just a fucking Hope Spot.

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:17:08 PM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247291: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:18:32 PM

[up]Not really? This is a huge deal, but it's not all "Everything else was pointless and we're all going to fucking die".

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 12:18:39 PM

Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#247292: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:23:41 PM

Sorry but I'm with Trash Jack. Maybe I'll get optimistic again later but for now, I've pretty much lost all hope. Especially since the continuation of gerrymandering and voter suppression means the Blue Wave could well not happen.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247293: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:24:25 PM

There's a difference between not being optimism and what Trash Jack does.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 12:24:29 PM

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#247294: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:27:05 PM

[up] "what Trash Jack does"

You mean "know when we're defeated instead of desperately clinging onto false hope"?

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#247295: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:28:10 PM

Couple things from the past few pages.

RE: Crowley's loss - something important to keep in mind was that he lost by a full 15 points, 15,897 to 11,761 (a 4,137 vote margin) to Ocasio-Cortez. Oh yeah, and NY's 23rd District is literally separated by 26 votes, so that is going to be interesting to see pan out.

With Kennedy's retirement - given how hideously unqualified other judicial appointees have been, we can hold out for hope that he'll pick someone that invokes the "No. Just… No" Reaction from even Republican Senators. And yeah, wish he'd waited longer for the retirement. Oh, and don't forget to say "Fuck You Very Much, McConnel" for his stonewalling of Merrick Garland.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jun 27th 2018 at 1:13:46 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247296: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:29:20 PM

[up][up]Well, that's one way of putting it, I suppose. An inaccurate and terrible way, but one nonetheless.

Like, I'm not saying this isn't bad or that everything will magically work out, acknowledging that isn't the same as your "Everything is fucked" attitude, and fail to see what you think that accomplishes, at all.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 27th 2018 at 12:37:45 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247297: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:33:06 PM

Eh, still won't stop me from voting in November or in the future.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247298: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:34:19 PM

[up]x4 But we aren't. Even with Gerrymandering, Democrats are making big gains. Even with a Conservative Court, we had huge Personal Right gains (like Marriage equality for Same Sex Couples). Even with Trump, many of his worst ideas aren't being implemented, and when they are they've resulted in Trump losing support from everyone, even Republicans (who are abandoning the Party, leaving only the vile, stupid, insane ones left), and has resulted in more people supporting and voting Democrats.

Yes, this is going to suck, and it's going to suck for a while if we don't pack the Courts soon, but it's not the end all, be all. America, by virtue of being a Democracy and a Republic, is not a nation where things are set in stone. As history has shown, we are a nation that is continually marching towards the right side of the issues, even if we have to kick and drag half of the nation along with us to do so. But we have to make sure it happens; if we give up now, even in the darkest of moments, then it will all come undone, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

[up] Same, and I'm in Alabama.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:36:02 PM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247299: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:35:54 PM

You all better fucking vote, or else the bitching we do here daily is worthless.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#247300: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:39:51 PM

Also, a "fuck you" to Harry Reid for abolishing the judicial filibuster. This is why thinking in the short term never works.

I didn't even have a huge problem with Gorsuch—he's conservative, but not out of the mainstream—but who knows who the next nominee will be.


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