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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247251: Jun 27th 2018 at 10:40:54 AM

Wanting to scrutinize politicians records isn’t a bad thing. Kamela Harris has a great track record on things like immigration and lgbt but a more mixed one on capital punishment and criminal justice (she tried to downplay the corruption in the Orange County da’s office when their snitch system tainted a high profile death penalty case; she was willing to defend capital punishment in court even though she refused to defend prop 8 in court and as mentioned previously she also refused to authorize testing in a high profile case despite their being compelling reason to believe that the state forged evidence and that judges had ignored this.)

You can support harris’s Record on immigration and lgbt while taking her over the coals for criminal justice (she also supported the draconian three strikes law).

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/08/kamala-harris-trump-obama-california-attorney-general

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247252: Jun 27th 2018 at 10:42:00 AM

Why are we taking about Harris all of a sudden? She hasn't been mentioned at all in the last 2-3 pages.

Is this deflection? It feels like deflection. Or possibly whataboutism.

Was LordYAM the one that posted that "damning" article about Harris role in corruption that mentioned her all of one time?

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 27th 2018 at 11:51:33 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#247253: Jun 27th 2018 at 10:45:24 AM

Someone criticized Sanders' campaign manager. Accordingly, let's start Harris bashing.

[up]Yes.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:46:56 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247254: Jun 27th 2018 at 10:50:28 AM

[up][up][up] ...Wait is that a Jacobin article link?

Okay, that whole post can be ignored.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247255: Jun 27th 2018 at 10:59:28 AM

It wasn’t just that one case. And no I acknowledge that she has a good record on immigration and lgbt (I’ve argued with people who criticize her immigration stance.) the article from the jacobin acknowledges that.

That doesn’t change that her criminal justice record is kinda shit and not just on that one case. She defended the absurdly draconian three strikes law (that was abolished in 012) among other things

There was a case in OC where the da’s office used blatantly illegal tactics to secure a conviction (the guy was guilty btw). The investigation revealed a system where prosecutors used illegal snitches among other things to secure victory for decades. Harris.....tried to defend the das office even though they were in the wrong.

Then there’s the Daniel Larson case (she kept dragging the guy back to court even though there was proof he was innocent, and the crime was such that even if it had the sentence was to draconian.)

We’ve moved past Bernie’s campaign manager. I just happen to feel criminal justice is important and consider Harris rather weak on that score.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247256: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:02:48 AM

But we weren't really taking about criminal justice either...

The mention of Harris is still out of the blue.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 27th 2018 at 12:03:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247257: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:05:23 AM

This is pretty blatant deflection.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247258: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:07:22 AM

On the subject of sudden deflecting swerves in the conversation:

What The Fuck Just Happened Today - Day 524: Bad idea.

1/ A federal judge ordered the federal government to reunite migrant families separated under the Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy and to end most family separations. U.S. District Court Judge Dana Sabraw issued a nationwide injunction requiring that all children under the age of five be reunited with their parents within 14 days and that older children be reunited within 30 days. The judge also ordered that all children be allowed to talk to their parents within 10 days, as well as to temporarily stop the practice of separating children from their parents. (Politico / New York Times / CNN / Washington Post)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/judge-orders-trump-reunite-migrant-families-678809

Melania Trump will visit more immigration holding centers this week. [Editor's note: I really don't care, do u?] (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/27/melania-trump-immigration-centers-jacket-678818

2/ The Supreme Court ruled that non-union public-sector workers cannot be required to pay union fees despite being represented by the union in collective bargaining negotiations. A 1977 decision made the distinction that forcing nonmembers to pay for a union's political activities violated the First Amendment, but that it was constitutional to require nonmembers to help pay for the union's collective bargaining efforts. More than one-third of public employees are unionized and public-sector unions stand to lose tens of millions of dollars as a result of the ruling. (New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-ruling-major-blow-public-worker-unions-n872971

3/ A former Fox News executive is expected to be the next White House communications director. Bill Shine was forced out as co-president for how he handled sexual harassment claims at the network. Shine is good friends with Sean Hannity. (CNN / Washington Post / New York Times)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/politics/bill-shine-donald-trump-communications-director/index.html

4/ Trump will meet Putin in the next few weeks, according to national security adviser John Bolton. The meeting is expected to take place in mid-July, when Trump will be in Europe for a previously scheduled NATO summit in Brussels on July 11-12. America's European allies are worried that Trump's meeting with Putin will undermine the NATO summit in the same way Trump clashed with allies at the G7 summit and then praised dictator Kim Jong-un. Asked why the meeting was taking place, Bolton replied: "I'd like to hear someone say this is a bad idea." (New York Times / CNN / Axios / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/politics/donald-trump-putin-nato/index.html

5/ First-time candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated 10-term incumbent Joe Crowley in the Democratic primary for New York's 14th District on Tuesday. Ocasio-Cortez's grassroots victory is being called one of the most shocking political upsets of the year, marking the first time in 14 years that a member of Crowley's own party attempted to unseat him. Crowley outspent Ocasio-Cortez by a 10-to-1 margin. (CNN / Vox)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-crowley-new-york-14-primary/index.html

Top takeaways from Tuesday's primaries. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/27/2018-primary-election-results-analysis-678811

Former NAACP chief Ben Jealous won Maryland's Democratic primary for governor and will now take on Republican Gov. Larry Hogan in the November election. Jealous promised to deliver a progressive agenda that includes free college, legal marijuana and a $15-an-hour minimum wage. (Baltimore Sun)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-governor-primary-20180626-story.html

poll/ 74% of voters support Trump's decision to reverse his administration's own policy of separating children from their family when they're caught crossing the border illegally. 44% approve of the way Trump is handling immigration, compared to 48% who disapprove. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/27/poll-trumps-family-separations-678812

poll/ 92% of Republicans believe the news media frequently and intentionally reports false or misleading stories. Overall, 65% of Americans think fake news is reported because "people have an agenda," 30% believe it's due to laziness or "poor fact-checking," and 3% think fake news is reported by accident. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/trump-effect-92-percent-republicans-media-fake-news-9c1bbf70-0054-41dd-b506-0869bb10f08c.html

Notables. Sarah Huckabee Sanders will receive temporary Secret Service protection for an unspecified period of time. The protective detail comes days after Sanders was asked to leave the Red Hen in Lexington, VA, over her role in the Trump administration. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/sarah-sanders-secret-service-protection/index.html

Conservatives unsuccessfully lobbied Scott Pruitt last year to remove a career staffer in hopes of derailing the 13-agency National Climate Assessment, which concluded that human activity is "extremely likely" to be driving climate change. Conservatives wanted Pruitt to "recall and replace" the staffer who worked for the committee overseeing the congressionally mandated report. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/pruitt-remove-employee-thwart-climate-report-649293

North Korea continues to make upgrades to its nuclear reactor "at a rapid pace," despite pledging to denuclearize. Satellite imagery shows infrastructure improvements to the site, including the cooling system for the plutonium production reactor. (The Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/north-korea-nuclear-reactor-upgrades-summit-pledges

Trump made 103 false statements last week, setting a new one-week record for his presidency. His previous record for false claims in a week was 60, which he set in early March. By some counts, that brings Trump's total to 1,829 false claims in the first 521 days of his presidency, an average of 3.5 per day. Other counts put the number of false or misleading statements above 3,000. (Toronto Star)

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2018/06/26/donald-trump-made-103-false-claims-last-week-shattering-his-dishonesty-record.html


Just got this notification from Reuters:

"Supreme Court Justice Kennedy plans to retire, allowing Trump to replace pivotal vote on closely divided court"

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 27th 2018 at 12:12:30 PM

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#247259: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:10:27 AM

Justice Kennedy, the pivotal swing vote on the Supreme Court, announces retirement

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy announced Wednesday that he is retiring from the Supreme Court, a move that gives President Trump the chance to replace the court’s pivotal justice and dramatically shift the institution to the right, setting up a bitter partisan showdown on Kennedy’s successor.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#247260: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:12:36 AM

Fuck

Oh really when?
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247261: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:12:50 AM

Fuck. This is bad. Kennedy was relatively sane, so I hope the Dems obstruct the fuck out of this. If they gain the majority they might be able to force trump to appoint a more balanced candidate.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247262: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:13:12 AM

Well, shit.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247263: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:13:43 AM

And there goes America....

It will be practically impossible to win at the SC after he gets replaced. And here I was worried that Gingrich and Brayer would die/retire, and that could still happen.

Politicized judiciaries: Not even once.

[up][up]Dems can't obstruct this, the Republicans will go nuclear on this appointment so they can appoint another Dominionist/Corporatist/Authoritarian.

And the Senate map is terrible for Democrats this year, flipping it isn't impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:16:12 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247264: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:16:51 AM

The only hope is for an appointed justice to have a later-in-life change of heart, like Blackmun and Souter did.

However, anyone, anywhere, who said that warnings about the SC in 2016 amounted to scaremongering can kindly shut the fuck up. This is exactly what actual Democrats were warning people about, but did anyone listen, of course not. I'll be sixty before any monster Trump digs up dies of old age.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:21:38 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247265: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:17:24 AM

Let’s just hope clarence Thomas either jerks over or retires either next year or later. The court will swing back eventually.

It’s also why I think term limits are good. The renquist court and Roberts court were conservative bastions and did their best to keep things from progressing in a lot of ways (there was a real fear renquist would overturn miranda.)

I noticed that Sabraw was a Bush appointee and has a pretty high robing room rating. If he’s a conservative Judge he’s a sane one

Edited by LordYAM on Jun 27th 2018 at 11:20:20 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247266: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:18:36 AM

How about we don't hope for people dying, okay?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247267: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:21:39 AM

If Thomas dies he gets replaced by Trump. We don't want any justices leaving, especially the liberal 4.

Normally I'd say mandatory retirement is a good policy, but in a system so tainted by politics, staggered term limits are probably better. At least rotate the garbage on occasion.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jun 27th 2018 at 3:24:04 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247268: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:21:42 AM

Depends. Some people are just so unpleasant you kinda want that to happen (I certainly wouldn’t mind if mcturtle or Paul Ryan were hit by a bus)

If the Dems do gain control of Congress it means trump can’t deploy the nuclear option and may have to be more flexible.

If Ginsburg holds out til 2020 we’re saved.

Edited by LordYAM on Jun 27th 2018 at 11:22:43 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247269: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:22:36 AM

If Clarence Thomas is replaced, we'll get someone just as evil, but who doesn't sleep during hearings.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247270: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:23:42 AM

We don't any judges going away now. Not even the rightwing ones. Because Trump will be the one who replaces them. And he's got a knack for picking people who make us miss the ones they are replacing no matter how shitty they were.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247271: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:24:51 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Not much else can be done about this except to try to amend the constitution to get judicial term limits, and/or change the federal law to “pack the court”.

All in all it’s not a good situation.

Edited by Mio on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:25:08 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#247272: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:25:17 AM

Well, seems like the best thing to hope for is someone remembering later on that 9 judges is, in fact, just a convention if it seems like it's going to give 20 years of a partisan court.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#247273: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:25:43 AM

Sadly, there's no alternative now: The next Democratic Administration, with a Democratic Congress, is going to have to pack the Courts. Then somehow, we're going to have to keep the Senate for a long time to make the 15+ Supreme Court the new standard. There is no other choice.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#247274: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:27:34 AM

Lemme guess. Trump's going to appoint Roy Moore to be the next Supreme Court Justice.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#247275: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:27:47 AM

We’re lucky Obama won in regards to the court. Sotomayor and kagan ain’t going anywhere soon. I wish Ginsburg had left when Obama was still the majority. She’s survived cancer twice and she’s most at risk for dying in office. She could easily die at any moment and if trump gets her seat the court will be fucked for years.

John Paul Stevens left in 2010 because he slurred words and realized his faculties were going. In that case it was the only honorable thing to do


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