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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247126: Jun 26th 2018 at 3:31:10 PM

I think Trump is very different from a "standard Republican President." He's not that different from the Republican Party as it is now but they're different from previous Presidents of their party.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#247127: Jun 26th 2018 at 3:39:33 PM

[up]x6 I would say he's as tough to get rid of as a cockroach but it would be unfair to the cockroach

Edited by tricksterson on Jun 26th 2018 at 6:39:37 AM

Trump delenda est
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#247128: Jun 26th 2018 at 3:41:58 PM

[up][up][up]"People will stop him from turning America into Mad Max before he gets there."

Weird. People expected the Hungarians and the Turks to do the same when they put their authoritarian leaders in power. Instead, they love them more than ever.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#247129: Jun 26th 2018 at 3:44:37 PM

And spouting doom and gloom adds nothing. We need to focus on avoiding that outcome, not accept it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247130: Jun 26th 2018 at 3:44:40 PM

Donald Trump has broken the law over and over again.

He's suffered no repercussions.

We're in uncharted waters here.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247131: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:02:49 PM

If Trump really does tank the economy with his tariffs then I think we can safely assume that he would not survive the next election, though I would be afraid of the sort of things he would try to do to try to stay in power.

[up][up][up][up][up][up]I don't see how he could expect to get nominated given how the party has moved over the years.

Edited by Mio on Jun 26th 2018 at 7:04:10 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247132: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:17:27 PM

[up][up]The actual laws Trump has broken are far less damaging to the republic than the norms he's broken. Those are the uncharted waters. Even if we throw Trump in jail, we'll never be able to erase that blot on our record or turn the clock back.

"Weird. People expected the Hungarians and the Turks to do the same when they put their authoritarian leaders in power. Instead, they love them more than ever."

Hungary has been a democracy for only like thirty years and authoritarian strongman politics run deep in Turkey. Having elected officials can only do so much to suppress primordial politics. You don't just become a liberal democratic republic overnight.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jun 26th 2018 at 7:21:41 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#247133: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:21:51 PM

[up][up]Actually, he could use the economic collapse to bolster his argument that the "elites" conspired to crash the economy and destroy his presidency. Usually economic collapses are major pathways for authoritarians to take complete control of a society. Why do you think Putin is still untouchable to the Russian populace despite his country's economy going down the toilet?

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#247134: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:23:21 PM

Because no one else is capable of running the country who is also allowed on the ballot. Have you seen the opposition? Are you telling me you would rather see Zhirinovsky in charge there?

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247135: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:24:50 PM

The immunity of the public to piercing trump's propaganda is getting quite vexing.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#247136: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:28:51 PM

[up][up][up]That's not exactly a good example because Putin wasn't directly involved in any of the policies that Yeltsin implemented where as Trump is directly involved in all of these policies.

Of course as [up] points out it may not be enough to break through the propaganda field for his base, but then it really doesn't have to for him to lose the election.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247137: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:31:12 PM

Actually, he could use the economic collapse to bolster his argument that the "elites" conspired to crash the economy and destroy his presidency. Usually economic collapses are major pathways for authoritarians to take complete control of a society. Why do you think Putin is still untouchable to the Russian populace despite his country's economy going down the toilet?
Ok this is actively counterfactual, the idea that Trump could crash the economy is very plausible but the idea that he could somehow avoid the fate of literally any other administration is beyond ridiculous. That's exactly the sort of thing that causes Democratic turnout to skyrocket, independents to solidly vote Democrat, and Republican turnout to be horribly depressed. I see zero rational reason to assume that he could use it to his advantage, because guess what unlike Putin he doesn't control the news apparatus or has successfully cooped the opposition.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#247138: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:32:58 PM

Comparing the US to Hungary, let alone Russia and Turkey, is excessive. The US has far more resilience than they do in terms of its institutions, media, and organized opposition.

I'd say that Trump is a normal Republican (aside from dropping the dog whistles) on the domestic front, but he's a total deviation from the party foreign policy and trade orthodoxy.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#247139: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:34:22 PM

[up]Eh, I wouldn't say you're wrong per-se but I do think domestically his rhetoric has been a deviation in that previously Republicans have become steadily more and more fascist while he more or less just dropped the pretense.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 26th 2018 at 4:34:18 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247140: Jun 26th 2018 at 4:36:07 PM

Mind you, I was stunned to find out George W. Bush built the fence on the Mexican border.

I don't know why I was surprised but I was.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#247141: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:03:28 PM

In the case of Putin, IIRC the opposing candidates don't actively oppose or criticize him - if they did, they wouldn't even get that far - and he still represses them and openly cheats in the actual election.

I'm not sure (correct me if I'm wrong) the real opposition in Russia is particularly organized, since its leadership is regularly arrested or killed.

Trump, in contrast, does have an organized and loud opposition protected by the First Amendment.

Edited by Raptorslash on Jun 26th 2018 at 8:03:58 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#247142: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:09:55 PM

Holy shit where's the proper place to give criticism for this update? I'm so bothered by it. And the highlights on night vision mode are fucking blinding. (So is regular mode why so fucking bright.) (Why are my posts highlighted what.)

on the actual topic, regardless of whether or not Democrats "can do anything" when voted into power is something that's going to have to be focused on once we get Democrats into actual power. We can't just let Trump have nothing but rubber stamps in the Congress.

Edited by AceofSpades on Jun 26th 2018 at 7:09:49 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#247143: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:11:26 PM

[up] Posts are highlighted when you link directly too them, such as when you come to a thread from your watchlist or (I think) right after you make a new post.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247144: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:20:53 PM

The system keep logging me out. I guess it'll take a second to iron out the kinks.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#247145: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:21:17 PM

One of the dumbest things Trump said about history is that Andrew Jackson could've stopped the Civil War. Though that makes me wonder if the Civil War could've been stopped from happening, or at least not get nearly as nasty as it did get.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#247146: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:25:48 PM

There was a brief secession crisis with under Jackson - I think South Carolina objected to some tariffs or something, threatened to secede, and Jackson made them back down. He later said that the tariff was merely a pretext, and that they were really aiming for Southern secession, and would probably do it over slavery next.

So...prescient, I suppose? Only good thing I'm willing to say about Jackson.

Of course, there's no guarantee that Jackson would have handled that situation well if he had been alive. Which he wasn't. So...

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jun 26th 2018 at 5:26:33 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247147: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:30:03 PM

What members of each party get wrong about their own party's demographics, and the others.

You could argue about how much this matters, but it's still interesting. Notably, about the same percentage of Republicans and Democrats (40%) are in the party out of opposing the other, than thinking theirs is actually represents them.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 26th 2018 at 5:33:21 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247148: Jun 26th 2018 at 5:54:56 PM

One of the dumbest things Trump said about history is that Andrew Jackson could've stopped the Civil War.

He's absolutely right. Andrew Jackson would have invaded Cuba and/or Mexico and ordered the unlimited expansion of slavery.

Though that makes me wonder if the Civil War could've been stopped from happening, or at least not get nearly as nasty as it did get.

Once more putting on my historian hat, the Civil War was as nasty as it got because of the delays. If they'd forced the issue much earlier instead of making sure generations of people grew up with it, then things might have been much better off.

I tend to view explicitly a Nazi/Confederacy parallel when people say "avoiding the Civil War." The Civil War was a bad thing to have happened but it was a good thing to have happened too as leaving the Confederates around was worse in the lung run, as bad as the South remained after.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 26th 2018 at 6:03:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#247149: Jun 26th 2018 at 6:36:33 PM

White Deaths Exceed Births in a Majority of U.S. States

I bring this up because it's interesting that the people who are so focused on "losing their country" focus on trying to keep brown people out, instead of bringing their own numbers up. (Not that I would want people obsessed with this to have a bunch of kids to indoctrinate, but still.)

But, also, because things like this can have interesting prospects for the population of the country as a whole.

Highlights include that a big part of this are what's called "deaths by despair", that is, suicide, alcoholism, and drug-related deaths, that have increased remarkably over the last couple of years. But Trump and Republicans won't really be addressing any of that in a meaningful way.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#247150: Jun 26th 2018 at 6:39:18 PM

The poor whites are people the Republicans would very much like to see annihilated.

But I've said too much about that as is.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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