TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#246951: Jun 25th 2018 at 7:09:49 AM

[up][up] I'm sure that it is how it works. Things left in the past...stay.

Also. Most of the Dems opossing the GOP are old too. I'd still call Grandma to Hillary.

The GOP is bad, but Old People aren't really worse than anyone else.

edited 25th Jun '18 7:14:26 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#246952: Jun 25th 2018 at 7:36:58 AM

[up] Depends on the old people in Question.

Basically all the worst parts of the Culture clash are from the GOP people that ended up being pissed off after the Democrats ended up becoming the equivalent of the Party of Lincoln republicans during the 60s, being all for the civil rights of minorties under JFK, and the GOP turned into the modern Day Federalist party in response (IE, the party that almost destroyed the US as soon as it became a thing through the Alien and Sedition Acts, which in turned caused them to be destroyed after Thomas Jefferson won against John Adams).

Watch Symphogear
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#246953: Jun 25th 2018 at 7:41:56 AM

Calling the GOP of today the modern-day Federalist Party is an insult to that party's memory, seeing as John Adams probably saved the early US from getting embroiled in the French Revolutionary Wars and Thomas Jefferson himself had supervillainesque designs on annexing Canada.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#246954: Jun 25th 2018 at 7:43:48 AM

[up] Depends on the old people in Question.
I think that's exactly the point being made

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#246955: Jun 25th 2018 at 7:46:24 AM

True, but the Alien and Sedition acts themselves expired in less then 2 years for a reason. Being jailed just for criticizing the government is very totalitarian in itself.

Watch Symphogear
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#246956: Jun 25th 2018 at 8:10:39 AM

[up]x7

I seem to remember that the baby boomers are an anomalous generation that have managed to increase their consumption all the way through their life-cycle rather than have the usual parabolic shape where it drops off during old-age, and they mostly did that by pressing down the consumption curves of the later generations. Amass assets in the late 60s/early seventies, have the corresponding debts inflated out of existence during the late seventies, murder the inflation during the eighties, beat down on anything remotely resembling demand-side policy for the next forty years and make sure the house prices keep rising.

Sure, obviously not all of them benefited from that, but as an aggregate the boomers have certainly scrambled up the ladder and then pulled it up after them, and they will keep doing that as long as old people vote disproportionately often and politicians of all stripes have to pander to them.

Remember that Cancer Moonshot thing Biden got passed? Benefits older people at higher cancer risk a lot more, they took half the money from general preventative care which provides more benefit to the young. This is not even a partisan thing half the time, there's a reason social security is sacrosanct and the pension funds must never take a loss ever while the right is cutting everything else.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#246957: Jun 25th 2018 at 8:30:38 AM

Agecide when?

...now seriously. I'm sure that someone actually tried it.

Now for a serious question. Someone see the possibility of a better Right Wing in the future? Is boring have everyone decent being forced to vote the same thing all the time.

edited 25th Jun '18 8:33:08 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#246958: Jun 25th 2018 at 8:33:11 AM

Stalin's bolsoj terror?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#246959: Jun 25th 2018 at 8:38:29 AM

[up] Hmmm...let's discuss this in the general politics thread.

Watch me destroying my country
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#246960: Jun 25th 2018 at 8:38:32 AM

I'm thinking the Cambodian Genocide was pretty damn close, even if there were other victims too.

Oissu!
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#246961: Jun 25th 2018 at 9:04:50 AM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246962: Jun 25th 2018 at 9:10:04 AM

[up]How? Trump's most enthusiastic age group in his base are 60+ years old (IIRC).

But yes giving more power to the state's is a terrible idea in that they tend to be corrupt and bigoted, defacto unitary government is the way to go.

edited 25th Jun '18 9:10:13 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#246963: Jun 25th 2018 at 9:17:54 AM

A unitary government structure in a country as big and diverse as the US is a terrible idea. A (relatively) simpler solution is do away with or heavily modify the 10th Amendment (honestly, I'd prefer to see that one gone over the 2nd, if it was a choice of only one Amendment), and establish strong federal human and civil rights law (ideally enshrined in the Constitution) that the states cannot override or evade.

edited 25th Jun '18 9:18:31 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246964: Jun 25th 2018 at 9:30:36 AM

[up]I disagree, I see no reason that size or diversity makes a unitary government nonviable. We aren't in the 19th century any more, communication lag and organizational efficiency are rather different.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#246965: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:17:24 AM

[up] I don't think a unitary government would be nonviable, per se, just very chaotic. We'd need to delegate a lot to keep everything running, which would just end up giving us something like what we have now.

Having administrative regions makes sense for large and populous countries, and the states are essentially that. Some tweaking of their authority is obviously called for, but the idea is sound.

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246966: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:29:29 AM

[up]Unitary government does not mean that administrative regions do not exist, it means that they do not have delusions of psuedo-sovereignty like they do now and are beholden to the central government.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#246967: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:30:07 AM

Honestly, the sheer incompetence of the Trump administration will probably put us on the path to looking like a republican version of the Holy Roman Empire than towards a more unitary model. Trump is like a personification of every institutional flaw in the American system, and in particular, how dangerous it is to give the reins to an idiot. Since we're assuredly going to elect more idiots to the White House in the future, we're probably going to have to look to governors more and more for sensible policy.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246968: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:32:59 AM

[up]Well this is a horrifyingly bad idea, local governments are shit and the idea that we would give them more power as a response to Trump acting exactly like them is a horrifying thought.

Still, on the bright side I could easily imagine things going in the opposite direction. People wanting government to actually do something and help people (i.e more centralization) because Trump is so blatantly doing the opposite.

edited 25th Jun '18 10:33:34 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#246969: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:38:55 AM

[up][up]

Honestly, the sheer incompetence of the Trump administration will probably put us on the path to looking like a republican version of the Holy Roman Empire
What did the Holy Roman Empire ever do to you? tongue

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#246970: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:40:30 AM

[up][up][up] I think it's just a matter of relative power. A country like the US probably needs stronger local governments than a small European country. We have pretty diverse populations and regions, so we need local governments that are able to adapt to a degree.

They shouldn't be as strong as they are now, I agree.

[up][up][up] It's thought that the Holy Roman Empire had 1500 or more individual states within it. Let's try not to do that to the US.

edited 25th Jun '18 10:42:33 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#246971: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:42:47 AM

[up][up][up]I don't really think that's preferable under the circumstances. Until we can free our institutions from the reactionary yoke, devising policy in state houses that are closer to home is really the best option.

edited 25th Jun '18 10:43:24 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#246972: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:45:20 AM

Considering the amount of fundies, evangelicals and people that tend to make religion look bad in general in the GOP and their bases, I'm certain that looking like the Holy Roman Republic might actually be their goal. Why else would they be called Republicans?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246973: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:47:36 AM

I don't really think that's preferable under the circumstances. Until we can free our institutions from the reactionary yoke, devising policy in state houses that are closer to home is really the best option.
And you think the local governments for a large part of the country aren't under the reactionary yoke? And how exactly does gutting the central government help accomplish that? There's a reason the state's rights movement is entirely composed of reactionaries, they have the advantage when it comes to local governments and they know it.

This argument could be used against literally any kind of government power and has been.

It's a terrible idea that will only make our country worse.

edited 25th Jun '18 10:47:51 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#246974: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:49:42 AM

The thing we need to get rid of is the idea that states have "rights," and enshrine in law that the federal government can come in and topple state governments that don't obey federal rules. Beyond that, a federal system is necessary.

To clarify the difference between a federal and unitary system, I'd rather still have state governments elected at a state level, providing that they haven't been suspended by the federal government. Yes, that means that Texas gets to elect Rick Perry, and so long as Rick Perry abides by Democratic-written EPA regs, there won't be a problem. If he doesn't, there can be federal heat dropped on all involved.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246975: Jun 25th 2018 at 10:52:53 AM

The thing we need to get rid of is the idea that states have "rights," and enshrine in law that the federal government can come in and topple state governments that don't obey federal rules. Beyond that, a federal system is necessary.
The state's having rights is a Federal system, Federal vs Unitary is not a question of whether or not local administrative governments exist it's a question of whether or not they should have power independent of the central government.

To clarify the difference between a federal and unitary system, I'd rather still have state governments elected at a state level, providing that they haven't been suspended by the federal government. Yes, that means that Texas gets to elect Rick Perry, and so long as Rick Perry abides by Democratic-written EPA regs, there won't be a problem. If he doesn't, there can be federal heat dropped on all involved.
This is fully compatible with a unitary system.

edited 25th Jun '18 10:53:06 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Total posts: 417,856
Top