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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#246751: Jun 23rd 2018 at 10:00:33 AM

Regarding Sarah Sanders and her plight.

edited 23rd Jun '18 10:05:27 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#246752: Jun 23rd 2018 at 10:04:03 AM

You know it's bad when you're nostalgic for Sean Spicer.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#246753: Jun 23rd 2018 at 10:04:40 AM

Spicer was at least amusing, with stuff like ducking behind bushes to avoid reporters.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#246754: Jun 23rd 2018 at 10:15:31 AM

I'm glad that the Trumpers are getting the treatment they deserve, and even more glad that they're so fucking triggered by it.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#246755: Jun 23rd 2018 at 10:17:51 AM

I kinda feel bad for Spicer, he tried to be a normal Press Sec, but that job is impossible when your boss openly lies on an hourly basis and create a new scandal weekly at least. Under a more conventional Republican; he could have done a decent job.

Sanders just openly lies.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
eyebones Since: Apr, 2004
#246756: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:03:34 AM

The President is elected for the whole population. It seems logical to me, then, for that office, alone, to be determined by simple (direct) majority. No Electoral College need apply. This idea keeps nagging at me. Am I overlooking a big flaw?

edited 23rd Jun '18 11:04:03 AM by eyebones

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#246757: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:04:45 AM

[up]That changing it would require the consent of the people who benefit from the Electoral College as it stands.

eyebones Since: Apr, 2004
#246758: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:15:16 AM

I believe it is fair to say that the Democrats do not feel a benefit from the Electoral College, as far as the Presidential office is under consideration. They could do it, post the Blue Wave.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#246759: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:16:15 AM

The President is elected for the whole population. It seems logical to me, then, for that office, alone, to be determined by simple (direct) majority. No Electoral College need apply. This idea keeps nagging at me. Am I overlooking a big flaw?

Most of us have been saying this for a while now too, but unfortunately it's not that simple. A big issue is that the Republicans know that the EC gives them the advantage, so they'll heavily oppose any measure that invalidates it.

edited 23rd Jun '18 11:17:02 AM by Draghinazzo

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#246760: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:18:40 AM

@eyebones: The Electoral College is designed to make sure that the Federal Government has to give some degree of regard to all the states, not just the most populous ones.

For example, here in Oregon we don't have an electoral college equivalent for the state government. As such, Portland runs everything.

Leviticus 19:34
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#246761: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:24:05 AM

If that's the job of the EC, it's failing spectacularly. All it does is make the government interested in the states with the close races.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#246762: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:24:46 AM

Does any state have an electoral college? How does that even work at the state level?

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#246763: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:27:53 AM

[up][up][up]And Greater Boston controls most politics in Massachusetts because people live there. The same with any place that has a city.

The greatest sin of the Electoral College is valuing empty land over people.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#246764: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:28:27 AM

And the idea that smaller states are ignored/shafted in terms of representation falls flat in the face of the Senate.

edited 23rd Jun '18 11:28:36 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#246765: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:43:30 AM

That is kind of the entire point of the Senate.

I think that the electoral college is one of those things that might have had a legitimate point, once upon a time, but has since outlived its usefulness or otherwise become part of the problem.

Very least it's worth noting the last two Republican presidents got elected by winning the college but losing the popular

edited 23rd Jun '18 11:57:10 AM by sgamer82

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#246766: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:43:37 AM

@Crimson Zephyr: Keep in mind it has to do with communities, not just people.

Leviticus 19:34
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#246767: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:52:46 AM

Even if you assume the "one half represents the people and one half represents the states as entities" thing, even that's gone out of whack with how unevenly the population is spread out.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246768: Jun 23rd 2018 at 11:56:13 AM

Honestly, I find the Democrats attitude to the Electoral College more indicative of the fact they have had poor campaigning strategies in Red States than a flaw in the Electoral College. Also, Obama and Bill Clinton won handily in those.

So, just do what they did.

Would the same people be complaining if the positions were reversed?

edited 23rd Jun '18 11:57:15 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#246769: Jun 23rd 2018 at 12:03:17 PM

"Keep in mind it has to do with communities, not just people."

No it doesn't. A state's electoral votes is supposed to be based on its congressional representation. Senators aside, the rest of the votes are based on the number of representatives. A state is supposed to get a representative for every 30000 people, regardless of where in the state they live.

eyebones Since: Apr, 2004
#246770: Jun 23rd 2018 at 12:03:32 PM

[up] [up] If a red president took the direct vote and blue took the big piece elsewhere? No, it would be different people complaining.

edited 23rd Jun '18 12:05:11 PM by eyebones

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#246771: Jun 23rd 2018 at 12:08:41 PM

If a Democrat won entirely because of the Electoral College, it wouldn't exactly make me feel great no.

If a Republican wins by a direct majority vote, then it at least means that the US as a whole decided their own fate and the Republicans have an actual mandate. Them winning because of an arcane system is much worse.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246772: Jun 23rd 2018 at 12:11:43 PM

I disagree because the fact it was a few million deciding the vote either way still means the difference is barely present.

Assholes are assholes even if there's slightly more than them.

I think most of the problems of the Electoral College could also be fixed by fixing voter suppression and Gerrymandering.

George W. Bush won his first election via fraud, not the electoral college.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#246773: Jun 23rd 2018 at 1:01:10 PM

You've failed to make an argument for keeping an outdated part of our electoral process, Charles. And yes, if the Republicans lost the EC and won the popular, you can damn well bet that the Republicans would be complaining up a fucking storm. Because it's fucking lopsided.

And I counter the idea that the EC is supposed to keep the states balanced with the fact that most red states are ignored now because they're safe Republican states with only three EC votes a piece. Folks don't spend much time in say, Montana, do they? The second thing I counter with: Voting is not a state's right. It's the individual's right, and it should fucking matter where they live their vote should be accurately counted instead of filtered through a fucking outdated system.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#246774: Jun 23rd 2018 at 1:06:57 PM

nm

edited 23rd Jun '18 1:08:24 PM by speedyboris

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246775: Jun 23rd 2018 at 1:09:15 PM

NVM

edited 23rd Jun '18 1:09:26 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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