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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#246551: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:31:18 PM

I believe in having a system that benefits the people and doesn't give any more power to the wealthy than they already have. Whether that's capitalism or communism or something else altogether doesn't matter to me as long as the people are at the center of it. It also needs to ensure that everyone — and I mean everyone — either receives a living wage or otherwise still has all the basic necessities for survival and a comfortable life, because there are far too many people who don't even have that.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#246552: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:36:40 PM

A Reuters notification I got that might be of potential interest, given why the show was canned in the first place:

"ABC says it ordered 'Roseanne' spinoff to air in fall 2018, adds Roseanne Barr will have no financial or creative involvement"

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#246553: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:37:25 PM

My main problem with the system as it is now has never been that there are much wealthier people than everyone else, but that the people at the bottom are in absolutely unacceptable conditions and that social mobility is becoming increasingly more difficult. This is especially true if you're a minority and/or have some kind of disability.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#246554: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:37:50 PM

In my mind an ideal economic system would be a hybrid of socialism and capitalism but I don't know if that's feasible.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#246555: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:39:38 PM

I mean, plenty of systems like that already exist. Nothing is going to be perfect, but they work a lot better than what we have here.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#246556: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:43:05 PM

I just hope that whatever leftwing movement becomes prominent in the USA doesn't devolve into outright Stalin and Mao apologia. Fuck tankies.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#246557: Jun 21st 2018 at 6:45:03 PM

Completely Laissez-faire, Free Market Capitalism sucks in it's own way, just as much as a completely socialist command economy.

Unrestricted Laissez-faire Capitalism (think Teapublicans, and Paul Rand) leads to exploitive practices, monopolies, and is inherently economically unstable due to the effects of the Boom and Bust Cycle, and the bubble effect. Others mentioned mentioned some of the other issues with it as well.

A command economy is prone to stagnation and lack of innovation, as well as General ineffeciency as demand is fluid but production remains the same and it's much harder to read changes in demand, leading to shortages and surpluses.

edited 21st Jun '18 6:53:12 PM by megaeliz

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#246558: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:09:59 PM

Trump aide Stephen Miller, meet your great-grandfather, who flunked his naturalization test.

A very in-depth look at how #Resistance Genealogy is uncovering how immigration hardliners are here in spite of their ancestors' circumstances being Not So Different from what modern immigrants have to face and how they adjust to American society.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246559: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:12:23 PM

I think Europe and even New Deal America shows how a socialist capitalist society can and does work.

All we need to do is produce more than we consume and have a surplus to help the impoverished.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246560: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:14:48 PM

Personally I'd prefer state capitalism (if it were viable) but market based capitalism is fine if there's stringent regulation and trust busting.

But yes a stronger left that aren't populist contrarians wouldn't necessarily be a problem.

edited 21st Jun '18 7:15:27 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246561: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:16:21 PM

https://deadline.com/2018/06/roseanne-spinoff-the-conners-abc-no-roseanne-barr-involvement-1202415440/

Roseanne is back, but as the Connors.

No Roseanne or Roseanne payments for it.

Roseanne was paid to basically give up all intellectual property involved in the Roseanne Universe.

edited 21st Jun '18 7:16:38 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#246562: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:19:10 PM

Trump aide Stephen Miller, meet your great-grandfather, who flunked his naturalization test. A very in-depth look at how #Resistance Genealogy is uncovering how immigration hardliners are here in spite of their ancestors' circumstances being Not So Different from what modern immigrants have to face and how they adjust to American society.

It doesn't matter. It never matters to people like Miller. They're incapable of reflection.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246563: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:19:46 PM

Hey, I can hate my Confederate ancestors.

He can hate his hardworking poor grandparents who have a racist shit grandson.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#246564: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:47:35 PM

Let's not forget that Trump's grandpa came from Germany, and he has spent most of his term shitting all over Germany.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#246565: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:48:51 PM

Yes, but you're a decent human being capable of reflection. Fascists are consumed by a desperate, wounded narcissism. Also they are stupid assholes.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#246566: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:51:34 PM

People like Miller are very good at the whole "willful ignorance" thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#246567: Jun 21st 2018 at 8:34:56 PM

There's a name for socialism-capitalism hybrids and it's called social democracy. It's considered "capitalist" mainly in the sense that communism being a thing skews the axis so far leftward that it puts socialism closer to the middle in comparison.

And honestly as someone who would still take laissez faire capitalism to communism any day of the year, giving more political influence to (non-crazy, non-Eat the Rich) democratic socialists would be useful as gadflies to pull political discourse from its rightward spiral back into a more reasonable range, even if none of their policies actually come to pass.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#246568: Jun 21st 2018 at 8:37:05 PM

British Journalist Paul Wood just broke some really interesting stories today. It's mostly hearsay at this point, and would require a lot more digging, but would be huge if true. [1]

Then there’s Cambridge Analytica. The (now shuttered) British company did the Trump campaign’s data. Its speciality was ‘microtargeting’: individual messages tailored to individual voters, delivered by email, Facebook and Twitter. The US intelligence agencies believe that Russian internet ‘troll factories’ were also pushing out pro-Trump propaganda on social media: sometimes fake news, sometimes real news, such as the hacked contents of Clinton’s emails. The question is whether this was done in coordination with the Trump campaign. An American lawyer I know told me that he was approached by a Cambridge Analytica employee after the election. They had had the Clinton emails more than a month before they were published by Wiki Leaks: ‘What should I do?’ Take this to Mueller, the lawyer replied.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#246569: Jun 21st 2018 at 9:37:52 PM

The reality is there are no entirely capitalist societies anywhere in the world. Every society puts some sort of restrictions on the market. Sometimes the restrictions aren't near enough, or are so badly done as to be meaningless, but I can't think of any societies that don't have at least some restrictions on the books.

Even the most hardcore libertarians don't actually want a total free market. They may say they do, they may even think they mean it, but they have no actual clue what they're talking about. When actually put in power even the most diehard free market worshipers typically discover, to their eternal chagrin, that regulation is required to keep the market functioning. This is why no conservative government has ever thrown out all the regulations—deregulated things far too much, absolutely, but actually gotten rid of all regulation? Never actually happens, because it can't.

Free markets are a myth in the modern age. They haven't been a thing in a long time, if they ever were, and that's because they're fundamentally nonviable.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246570: Jun 21st 2018 at 9:54:52 PM

I think there's a bunch of people who want a totally free market.

They want to burn down the world, enslave women, and kill the minorities too.

They assume they'll be the boot in the new world, not the ant.

It's why I think The Postman isn't entirely a shitty movie for its bad guys.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#246571: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:42:51 PM

[up] Somalia is an example of a totally free market, and look how they are doing.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#246572: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:45:18 PM

The closest you get to total Capitalism is failed states, where violence has driven out any kind of government, but even then you’re looking more at neo-feudalism under warlords more than pure Capitalism. Pure Capitalism is like pure Communism, it doesn’t exist, it’s a fantasy, any society that starts to get close collapses into something different (neo-feudalism for capitalism and authoritarian dictatorship for Communism being the most common outcomes).

A society build around either there being no society (pure Capitalism) or no completion (pure Communism) doesn’t work with human nature, or in the case of pure Capitalism the basic concept of a society.

[up] Somalia isn’t even that, it has a variety of tribal, neo-feudal and semi-government areas within it, even when the state fails people form some kind of society with governance.

The closest you get to raw Capitalism is amusingly enough communes, a place where the market has determined that everyone’s labour is worth exact one thing, a place in society. There are no rules, no government, everyone simply exists together, ascribing what value they wish to their labour and goods (that value being none).

edited 21st Jun '18 10:48:11 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#246573: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:48:02 PM

Somalia is an example of a totally free market, and look how they are doing.

This joke is actually out of date. Somalia's not a place that any First Worlder might want to live but it's nowhere near as bad as it was in the nineties, and it's government is functioning fairly well given the constraints it is operating under. See the Wikipedia page, here, for greater detail on that.

It's a fragile state, but it's no longer a failed one, and it's made significant improvements in life expectancy, etc. No guarantees for the future obviously, but for the moment, that joke no longer really works.

edited 21st Jun '18 10:54:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246574: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:56:57 PM

Yeah, I was reading up on that and it's nice to see things picking up.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001

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