TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245926: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:02:45 PM

That's not an unreasonable position, I think it's rather plausible that this could hurt them badly.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245927: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:07:53 PM

I think we've reached the point where you have to be able to survive on your current salary enough for racism to be your primary motivation.

As people have mentioned, poor people (not even poor whites) were never Trump's base. He just claimed they were.

Mind you, I see this as primarily noticeable for the fact its the SOUTHERN BAPTISTS who did this which is the biggest ultra-right block and has been a bedrock of such for years. If this is happening there, what's happening elsewhere.

edited 16th Jun '18 6:09:25 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245928: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:09:33 PM

[up]I cannot comprehend why you would assume this.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245929: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:15:20 PM

Because super poor whites voted Democrat?

The people who voted Trump were affluent and middle class whites.

edited 16th Jun '18 6:15:48 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#245930: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:16:42 PM

Yeah, you can very much put racism first. In no small part because a lot of them have convinced themselves that their economic problems can be solved by indulging their racial prejudices ("through them all out" and the like).

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245931: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:17:56 PM

[up][up]My problem is purely with the first sentence, someone who cannot make ends meet can absolutely have racism as their primary motivator. I don't necessarily have any problem with the rest of your post.

edited 16th Jun '18 6:18:24 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245932: Jun 16th 2018 at 6:50:56 PM

I think it certainly makes it a self-solving problem.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#245933: Jun 16th 2018 at 7:26:16 PM

Turns out the relevant quote here is by LBJ.

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

That's where I see Trump appealing to lower-class Caucasians (and maybe African-Americans/etc., since he was demonising Mexicans the most by far),

edited 16th Jun '18 7:33:55 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245934: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:29:08 PM

Thing is Trump didn’t appeal to the working class, they voted heavily for Hillary. Trump appealed to the uneducated, middle-aged, middle-class, a group who tend to view themselves as hard done by despite actually having been given more than almost any other generation in American history.

People in poverty can be racist, however racism tends to be more prevalent amongst those who aren’t hard done by but think that they are, that class persecution complex very easily makes the jump to being a racial one.

LBJ was great, but he like most American politicians suffered from a poor understanding of class dynamics. If you want to see the fight between poor black people and poor white people it’s not in the plantations of the South, it’s in the East Coast cities where Irish immigrants rioted against freed blacks taking their jobs.

edited 16th Jun '18 8:31:06 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#245935: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:41:56 PM

The idea goes back to at least the abolition of slavery, though, and probably before. Convince the poor to figuratively eat themselves over issues like race and they'll let you rob them blind, or at least be easily led.

edited 16th Jun '18 8:42:52 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245936: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:45:39 PM

Trump won in large part thanks to suburbanites.

There is a reason I did not enjoy growing up in suburbia.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245937: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:47:41 PM

[up][up] The idea of having the poor fight each other is an old one, but it’s not an idea Trump successfully managed to implement. As best he managed to get people poorer than him to fight each other, as I’m sure from the perspective of much of the Republican leadership the working class and the lower end of the middle class look the same.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#245938: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:48:51 PM

An ex-employee of one of the migrant shelters says they are not equipped to handle things and the kids are running away, throwing furniture and trying to commit suicide: https://twitter.com/ericuman/status/1008155255568326662

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-migrant-shelter-20180614-story.html

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#245939: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:51:34 PM

[up][up] Fair point, but isn't the effect kind of the same? I may be oversimplifying my interpretation of your post.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245940: Jun 16th 2018 at 8:59:12 PM

Th effect being that Trump gets votes from racist people? Sure, but that’s not the important thing.

If Trump was getting votes from racist poor people than the Dem could try appealing to said voters by focusing on their genuine economic issues. But he’s not, he’s getting votes from racist middle class people, they can’t be won over by addressing their genuine economic issues because they don’t have real economic issues.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#245941: Jun 16th 2018 at 9:01:21 PM

The way poverty is extending it’s becoming a fight for survival. The southern baptists are just the largest current example of that.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245942: Jun 16th 2018 at 9:31:46 PM

Basically, growing up in the rural South, I have seen a lot of racism in many many different forms. Surprisingly, it's weird how Trump DIDN'T go over with the genuinely destitute. Far less than I expected.

But mostly, as said above, suburbanites and not so terribly off white people.

I blame Obamacare (which saved a lot of them from dying in the street) and the fact Trump is a caricature of a wealthy person.

edited 16th Jun '18 9:35:26 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#245943: Jun 16th 2018 at 10:50:26 PM

[up][up][up] I think I meant that he gets the people to let him alone and focus on pointlessly attacking eachother. Something like that.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#245944: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:51:40 AM

20 injured in a shooting at a Trenton, New Jersey art festival. 1 suspect killed, another in custody.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/us/new-jersey-art-festival-shooting/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#245945: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:05:39 AM

[up] and that's the problem with conservative "Arm Teacbers" line of thought. That wouldn't have helped here.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#245947: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:37:39 AM

Obviously, the guns need smaller guns! More guns means more safety even though the exact opposite is actually true.

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#245948: Jun 17th 2018 at 7:11:57 AM

'"Inset my sig and M84's sig here''

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#245949: Jun 17th 2018 at 7:34:27 AM

[up][up][up]It would be a nice supplement to more general counter tariffs (which are still absolutely vital to cushion the impact and pressure Congress and the American public), though I suspect it would also cause Trump to lash out even harder. But if the Beast can't be reasoned with, it must be fought.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#245950: Jun 17th 2018 at 8:01:03 AM

[up][up][up][up] Seems good, crush Trump as much as possible and leave to people relatively unscathed.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.

Total posts: 417,856
Top