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KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#245676: Jun 14th 2018 at 2:53:32 PM

I guess that this belongs more into the General Politics thread and I would to continue this talk there, but how exactly Fascism is against the idea of a Modern State?

I imagine that with Modern State, it means to stuff like Modern Bureacracies and a goverment that actually do something beyond killing its enemies.

edited 14th Jun '18 2:54:41 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#245677: Jun 14th 2018 at 2:56:42 PM

[up] Fascism was a reaction to Liberalism. They saw the Liberal state as inefficient and bloated, and made weak by things like internationalism and personal freedoms. Hence the importance of national struggle in fascist politics, and the idea that every effort within the state should contribute towards said struggle.

They should have sent a poet.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#245678: Jun 14th 2018 at 3:06:17 PM

I have a very low opinion of Sparta (and not much higher one of Athens to be honest), but I do find it striking that Xenophon, who was like the biggest Sparta fanboy, fought for the Persians and had a lot of respect for some of them, especially Cyrus the Great. And while he considered it un-Greek/ "un-manly", plenty of the Greek mercenaries he fought with went native and got ear piercings and the like.

Granted, he was an Athenian by birth (just one who was super pro-aristocracy and anti-democracy) and his compatriots weren't necessarily Athenians or Spartans, but yeah, I don't really think he'd find Frank Miller/ Zach Snyder's 300 that much in line with his wolrdview.

edited 14th Jun '18 3:06:31 PM by Hodor2

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#245679: Jun 14th 2018 at 3:18:28 PM

3/ Sarah Huckabee Sanders and deputy press secretary Raj Shah are planning to leave the White House. Sanders plans to leave by the end of the year, while Shah hasn't settled on an exact date. Sanders denied the rumor, tweeting: "Does @CBS News know something I don't about my plans and my future? I was at my daughter's year-end Kindergarten event and they ran a story about my 'plans to leave the WH' without even talking to me. I love my job and am honored to work for @POTUS." (CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-sanders-raj-shah-planning-to-depart-the-white-house/

Much as I would love for Sanders to leave, I'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen and this article is jumping the gun.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#245680: Jun 14th 2018 at 3:26:30 PM

For those of us looking for more direct ways to help those kids Trump locked up, this twitter thread has a list of charities. I'm donating to two or three right now, in addition to Democrats and the ACLU/

A list, if you don't want to go on Twitter:

Women's Refugee Commission

The Young Center

Support KIND

The Florence Project

Asylum Seeker Advocacy Project

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245681: Jun 14th 2018 at 3:50:29 PM

I consider 300 to be one of the worst depictions of Sparta ever and it has been lionized and romanticized for millennium.

Sparta's military prowess and general "superiority" are all products of their own propaganda machine which fell apart when faced with actual opponents—much like most military societies that laud their race, achievements, and power over actual ability as well as industry.

The nature of fascism as a authoritarian, eugenics, propaganda-based, militarist, and death-worshiping warrior cult are all there in Sparta.

edited 14th Jun '18 3:53:48 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#245682: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:09:06 PM

[up] Militarism is only one small aspect of fascism. The Spartans didn't have any of the major defining features of fascism other than that. They weren't revolutionary, they didn't promote reactionary politics, and they couldn't possibly have promoted corporate interests or pushed back against Liberalism and Marxism, or rejected modernism.

It's simply not accurate to call the Spartans fascists, unless you're stretching the definition of the word fascism well beyond what it actually means.

edited 14th Jun '18 4:11:32 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#245683: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:16:10 PM

So did Trump actually pull the "there was no collusion also why are you not letting this government that I am not colluding with do whatever they want" card?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245684: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:16:58 PM

My history teacher compared Spartans to Klingons and Athenians to Vulcans. Makes sense.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#245685: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:22:36 PM

I guess that this belongs more into the General Politics thread and I would to continue this talk there, but how exactly Fascism is against the idea of a Modern State? I imagine that with Modern State, it means to stuff like Modern Bureacracies and a goverment that actually do something beyond killing its enemies..

In its most extreme form—Nazism—fascism starts to advocate for the destruction of the nation-state and a return to some version of neofeudal quasi-anarchy, where the institutions of the modern state are eradicated, and the community is held together solely by shared bloodlines and loyalty to The Leader.

This is one of the reasons why trying to classify Nazism as "individualist" or "collectivist" is meaningless. The Nazis did not respect individual rights, but they also didn't respect the notion of protecting society at large from the individual either. Their ideal world was one in which every individual was free to oppress every other individual, in a chain of patronage/abuse at the top of which sat Hitler. Of course they were also sure that in creating this kind of society, they would be ensuring the improvement of the human species and the creation/refinement of the Master Race.

The nation-state, as it stood, was in the way of this vision of the future, and they believed that it was an invention of the Jews, meant to prevent the Aryans and other superior races from achieving evolutionary perfection. They were particularly convinced that the Slavs were incapable of civilization and that as such, the Soviet Union, Poland, and other Eastern European states had to be artificial, held together by Jewish conspiracy rather than anything natural. Many of the apparent contradictions in Nazism start to make not sense, but more sense, once you get your head around this particular brand of madness.

Other fascist parties didn't have quite the apocalyptic vision of the Nazis, but they were still deeply hostile to the modern nation-state as it stands, and they typically shared the Nazi goal, albeit in a more muted fashion, of turning back the clock to an earlier era. Which is why they're typically so destructive of state institutions, even as they mobilize them against perceived enemies. This is one reason why Trump's degradation of government institutions is so concerning—it's honestly one of the most fascistic things about him.

Obviously, of course, none of this dislike for the nation-state can be there before nation-states exist.

edited 14th Jun '18 4:23:41 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#245686: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:33:32 PM

Going back to US politics, here's more about The NY Attorney General Barabra Underwood's lawsuit against the Trump foundation.

(CNN) The New York attorney general on Thursday sued President Donald Trump's charitable foundation along with its directors — the President, his sons Eric and Donald Jr. and daughter Ivanka — alleging they violated state and federal charities law.

Attorney General Barbara Underwood alleges a pattern of persistent illegal conduct over more than a decade that includes extensive unlawful political coordination with the Trump presidential campaign.

"As our investigation reveals, the Trump Foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments from Mr. Trump or his business to nonprofits, regardless of their purpose or legality," Underwood said.

The attorney general is asking a court to dissolve the Trump Foundation and wants $2.8 million in restitution plus additional penalties.

She seeks to ban Trump from serving as a director of a New York not-for-profit for 10 years and the remaining board members — Ivanka, Don Jr. and Eric Trump — from serving for one year, or until they receive fiduciary training.

The suit alleges that the Trump Foundation engaged in "repeated and willful self-dealing transactions to benefit Mr. Trump's personal and business interests."

The suit contends that the Trump Foundation used the tax-deductible donations in at least five instances that benefited Trump or businesses he controls.

These instances include a $100,000 payment to settle legal claims against his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. The lawsuit contains a note from Donald Trump, which alleges that he personally directed his accounting staff to draw the $100,000 payment from the assets of the foundation to pay a legal settlement at his resort. Any personal, legal or business transactions, not having to do with the charity, should have been made from his personal or business accounts.

The suit also alleges a $158,000 payment to settle legal claims against his Trump National Golf Club in 2008 from a hole-in-one tournament; and a $10,000 payment at a charity auction to purchase a painting of Trump that was displayed at the Trump National Doral in Miami.

"This is not how private foundations should function, and my office intends to hold the Foundation and its directors accountable for its misuse of charitable assets," Underwood said.

Underwood said that after the investigation by her office began in 2016, the foundation paid excise taxes on three of the transactions, and Trump restored funds for the transactions to the foundation. But she added that the foundation has not paid excise taxes on the Mar-a-Lago or Trump National Golf Club transactions

"This is politics at its very worst," a Trump Foundation representative said in a statement. "The Foundation has donated over $19 million to worthy charitable causes — more than it even received. The President himself — or through his companies — has contributed more than $8 million. The reason the Foundation was able to donate more than it took in is because it had little to no expenses. This is unheard of for a charitable foundation. The Foundation currently has $1.7 million remaining which the NYAG has been holding hostage for political gain. This is unconscionable — particularly because the Foundation previously announced its intention to dissolve more than a year and a half ago. The prior NYAG, who was recently forced to resign from office in disgrace, made it his stated mission to use this matter to not only advance his own political goals, but also for his own political fundraising. The acting NYAG's recent statement that battling the White House is 'the most important work (she) have ever done' shows that such political attacks will continue unabated."

The President was quick to criticize the suit, tweeting about the suit.

"The sleazy New York Democrats, and their now disgraced (and run out of town) A.G. Eric Schneiderman, are doing everything they can to sue me on a foundation that took in $18,800,000 and gave out to charity more money than it took in, $19,200,000. I won't settle this case!" he said in one tweet.

"Schneiderman, who ran the Clinton campaign in New York, never had the guts to bring this ridiculous case, which lingered in their office for almost 2 years. Now he resigned his office in disgrace, and his disciples brought it when we would not settle," he said in another tweet.

Later, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said the New York Attorney General's Office is "outrageously biased."

"The President has tweeted about this specifically earlier today. The foundation raised $18 million while giving $19 million to charity while virtually having zero expenses," Sanders said. "The previous New York AG, who was forced to retire in disgrace, made a stated mission to use this matter to advance his own political gain and the current acting New York AG has stated that battling the White House is the most important job she's ever done. That sounds outrageously biased and certainly problematic and very concerning."

Underwood also alleges that Trump's presidential campaign extensively directed and coordinated the foundation's activities in connection with a nationally televised charity fundraiser in Des Moines, Iowa, on January 28, 2016, just ahead of the Republican caucus vote there as well as the disbursements from the fundraiser. The suit says that violated the foundation's certificate of incorporation as well as state and federal law by engaging in political activity.

According to the lawsuit, Trump signed a false filing dated October 20, 2016, saying that the foundation held the fundraiser to raise money for veterans organizations.

"This statement was false because, in reality, the Fundraiser was a Trump Campaign event in which the Foundation participated," the suit said.

The investigation also found that the board existed in name only and did not meet after 1999. Additionally, Trump allegedly made all decisions related to the foundation. He hasn't contributed any personal funds to the foundation since 2008, the suit said.

Trump and his daughter Ivanka resigned their positions on the board shortly after he was sworn in as President. But Eric and Donald Jr. remain on the board, according to the suit.

Asked by CNN about the lawsuit as he left a New York restaurant Thursday, Donald Trump Jr. dismissed it, saying there was "nothing to talk about — more nonsense."

But Underwood told CNN she has the facts to back up the suit.

"This is a straightforward case of violation of the laws governing charitable foundations and nonprofit corporations in New York," she told CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

In addition to filing the suit, Underwood sent letters to the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Election Commission asking those agencies to investigate possible violations of federal law.

Both agencies declined to comment to CNN when asked about the letters.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#245687: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:45:08 PM

Which former president do you think has the most in common with our current one?

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#245688: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:48:28 PM

First one that comes to mind for me is Harding - elected on charisma alone, and then proceeded to have one of the most incompetent, scandal-ridden administrations in history. I don’t know if he was especially corrupt himself, though.

edited 14th Jun '18 4:48:46 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#245689: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:49:10 PM

Jackson comes to mind, although he did far worse damage.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245690: Jun 14th 2018 at 4:55:33 PM

It's far from his worst offense but Trump blocking Harriet Tubman from being on the 20 dollar bill remains the act I hate most for its sheer Evil Is Petty-ness.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Imca (Veteran)
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#245692: Jun 14th 2018 at 5:02:13 PM

Which former president do you think has the most in common with our current one?

Jefferson. Davis, that is.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245693: Jun 14th 2018 at 5:04:37 PM

Here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/us/politics/harriet-tubman-20-dollar-bill-trump.html

http://fortune.com/2018/04/19/harriet-tubman-20-dollar-bill-delayed/

Harriett Tubman won’t be in your wallet anytime soon.

Despite a 2016 announcement that the abolitionist would be the new face of the $20 bill, the Trump administration has significantly delayed the rollout of the new bills, ensuring that Andrew Jackson will be around at least six years longer than planned.

Though initially planned to debut in 2020 (100 years after women earned the right to vote), the Tubman $20 bill (and other redesigns) now won’t hit the streets until at least 2026, according to the Treasury Department.

The Bureau of Engraving and Printing is blaming the delay partially on the fact that the redesigns have not been finalized or approved for circulation. Beyond Tubman’s $20 bill, women’s rights icons Alice Paul and Marian Anderson were to appear on the back of the $10 bill. The $5 bill featuring Martin Luther King, Jr. on the back has also been delayed.

Donald Trump is a fan of Andrew Jackson. And Treasury Secretary Mnuchin has the final say on all currency redesigns—and has historically shown a reluctance to make the changes a priority.

“Ultimately we will be looking at this issue,” he said last year. “It’s not something that I’m focused on at the moment

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Imca (Veteran)
#245695: Jun 14th 2018 at 5:07:56 PM

At least its just a delay, not cancled....

A delay off a significant event, and a fucking awefull message, but it could be worse....

:/

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#245696: Jun 14th 2018 at 5:39:49 PM

I just realized that the New York Attorney General annonced their lawsuit against the Trump organization on his birthday.

and here's the Court Filing, if anyone is interested in reading it. It's 22 pages long, and goes into incredibly detail about the alleged crimes.

edited 14th Jun '18 5:52:33 PM by megaeliz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#245697: Jun 14th 2018 at 5:53:01 PM

Trade war is escalating on the Chinese front; as Trump has given final approval for $50 billion in tariffs on Chinese goods.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/14/news/economy/trump-china-tariffs/index.html

Might want to take a hard look at yourself when you make President Xi look like the reasonable adult.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#245698: Jun 14th 2018 at 6:08:37 PM

I'm sure Trump looks at himself very often, and I'm sure that hardness is involved.

And there's something to think about before bed.

i'm tired, my friend
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#245699: Jun 14th 2018 at 6:15:24 PM

I’m still frustrated that between the Supreme Court decision basically greenlighting horrific voter restrictions and trump’s support base staying relatively steady, it’s looking more likely he will win a second term.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245700: Jun 14th 2018 at 6:16:41 PM

[up]Voter suppression has been going on for a while, and he still barely won in 2016 against someone who was almost as unpopular as he was. Same with his base of support.

There is no benefit to such counterfactual doomsaying.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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