Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
This. Please people, enough with the doomsaying. Yes, things suck, but we knew they were gonna suck. And while it can be easy to forget, we still have checks and balances in place that have prevented and will continue to prevent Trump and co from going full jackboot. But if you still think that's where things are heading, then kindly do so elsewhere. Because defeatism and doom and gloom isn't gonna help anyone.
Honestly, we over here have already more than enough refugees to deal with….
though, btw, there have been Americans taking advantage of their heritage in order to obtain an EU passport, so that they can then work across the EU without trouble. But honestly, fix your own damned country! You are not living in Syria, you have a chance to do it.
The likelihood of an actual shooting war with Canada is next to 0. I'm not going to say it's absolutely 100% impossible but, like, the sequence of events that would need to occur in order to achieve such a thing even after the wild and improbable events that brought us to this point puts it somewhere in the 0.x percentile, surely.
Here's the thing. Trump cannot start a war with Canada. Congress has to declare war. The President does not have the power to just fire up a shooting war against anyone who's mean to him for literally this exact reason. He's going to have a hard time convincing Congress that war with Canada could possibly go anywhere good.
Unlike Middle East countries, Trump also cannot fire off military strikes against Canada without approval. The piece of law that allows him to fire those strikes explicitly states that it can only be used against countries with a link to the 9/11 attack. While that has been misused since then, it's going to take some serious Insane Troll Logic to try and say that Canada was complicit in 9/11.
Trump has no military power here. He's saber rattling because that's the full extent of what he can actually do. It's an empty show of force in the hopes that he might intimidate Justin Trudeau into walking back the statement that offended him so much.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Since when is Trump even coming close to threatening military force against Canada (or other NATO members)? And no one was talking about anything more than a North American trade war, maybe tightened border security (which actually decreases security, because cooperation is the big factor there).
Unless the current situation changes drastically, it would be impossible even if you put the legal implications aside. If the US bombed, let alone invaded, another Western democracy, there would be riots back at home if not outright insurrections. Hard to invade a country that your citizens have a 90%+ approval rating of. The military might flat out refuse to obey, and tell Cabinet to invoke the 25th. There would be no way to launch anything approaching a surprise attack, the logistics and security integration would give any plans away, giving the target time to start organizing guerilla cells, scorched earth operations, etc. Finally, the US and global economies implode because the world's biggest market just became a pariah state.
Trade conflicts between the US and it allies are likely, shooting wars are unthinkable.
On that note, I am surprised at how quickly the GOP embraced (through silent approval) Trump's protectionism.
edited 13th Jun '18 4:38:13 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Yes.
Trump has behaved in a consistent manner (corruption, incompetence, and stupidity), none of which involves military strikes against allies. Militarily he has behaved like a perfectly normal Republican or even Democratic President.
Lets not let Trump become some kind of meme, he's terrible but he's not terrible in the way that the most hysterical theories would make you think.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangTrump is constantly moving the goal post to what is unthinkable. Just two years ago it would have been unthinkable that a candidate who brags about molesting woman would become president. It would have been unthinkable that a president freely uses his pardoning power to free racists. It would have been unthinkable that he wouldn't affirm the NATO pledge. It would have been unthinkable that he even has a row with Canada of all countries (or with Australia for that matter).
So, yeah, there is nothing unthinkable about the notion of Trump circumventing congress again in order to attack Canada one way or another, simply because Trump has no shame and nobody seems to be inclined to stop him. Have you seen how the Republicans framed the row with Trudeau?
Are you posting from an alternate reality where Trump has behaved exactly as the doomsaying predicted?
Because from this one Trump has been very consistent with his terribleness and as such there is zero rational reason to believe that he would likely do that.
Yes he's stupid and corrupt but if you look at his actual foreign and domestic policy he's been very similar to the bog-standard Republican, thus all this talk of military strikes on Canada is nothing more than ridiculous nonsense.
edited 13th Jun '18 5:20:55 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangIt's not a matter of whether or not Trump might be willing to do it, it's a matter of Trump not having the authority to do it. Like, if he tried the response would be "Sir, you don't have the power to give that order."
It's not a matter of how crazy Trump is; for war with Canada to happen, he'd need a congressional majority to go along with that particular spore of madness. Not even this congress is close to being that bad.
edited 13th Jun '18 6:09:30 PM by Gilphon
There's no bar too low for Trump.
I wonder if accusing people of being a Trump supporter will be the new Godwin's Law...
ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.![]()
Exactly, there's no reason to believe that he would want to and even if he did he simply couldn't.
I could easily imagine it becoming that, because if Trump becomes embarrassing for the Republicans I would put good money on them all suddenly turning out to be never Trumpers all-along.
edited 13th Jun '18 5:22:18 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Don't worry, he is.
Though to be fair nearly every Republican I know (which mind you, is basically my entire family, in-laws included) didn't support Trump in the primaries; he wasn't their first choice.
edited 13th Jun '18 5:33:31 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34@Wario: Look, you can decide where you want to go or stay, but you're not a refugee and are unlikely to be the target of this weird Canada thing. This seems a lot like your usual going to extremes conclusions.
@The Canada thing: Uh... when was the idea of an actual shooting war brought up? That seemed to just pop up out of nowhere. Obviously, Trump can't just declare an actual war on anyone. We all know that. And he'd be hard pressed to justify an executive order for any kind of military action. He really can't do everything he wants, simply because as few people as he's hired there's still others working in the government. I'm not sure how we got from trade war to shooting war, though.
Sarah Sanders, Raj Shah planning to depart the White House
Press secretary Sarah Sanders and principal deputy press secretary Raj Shah are both heading for the exits, according to sources inside the White House and close to the administration. Sanders, who has become a confidante of President Trump since the departure of former communications director Hope Hicks, has told friends that she plans to leave the administration at the end of the year.
Shah is also considering his exit, but he has not yet settled on an exact date. Neither Sanders nor Shah immediately responded to repeated requests for comment.
Sarah Sanders on the way out? Part of me is honestly surprised, yet at the same time her willingness to stick with it this long is equally shocking.
If you mean the kid asking about gun control, a 13 year old asked her about gun control in schools, and she started to tear up before composing herself. Evidently it's easier to sell lies to other adults than lie directly to a child.
edited 13th Jun '18 6:01:26 PM by TheRoguePenguin
If they start to turn against him I would bet a significant amount of money they'll all start acting as if they were all secret never Trumpers.
edited 13th Jun '18 6:11:06 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
