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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#245301: Jun 12th 2018 at 3:08:02 AM

Ironically, subsidies for small farms aren't even the problem, because most farming subsidies end up in the pockets of big agriculture. Whodathunkit? Unfortunately, small farmers get drawn in by hopes of subsidies and used as part of our national mythos to ensure that big farmers can sell their dairy to the sewer - I wish I was joking.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245302: Jun 12th 2018 at 5:14:22 AM

I am still a little puzzled why people didn't comment as much on the NY Times article.

Because of the context in which is was bought up. There are plenty of reason to take issue with Harris and any number of more mainstream democrats, but when said issues are bought up in the context of Bernie defenders refusing to acknowledge his faults/the faults of people who support him it makes the motive seem questionable.

When something gets bought up in either an obvious case of whataboutism or blatant hypicracy from people who defend similar actions from people they more strongly identify with, the context of it bright bought up tends to dominate the conversation.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#245303: Jun 12th 2018 at 7:30:28 AM

In a vacuum, criticism of Democratic candidates is a good thing and certainly welcome. Despite my criticizing Charles from earlier for sounding entitled, I don't think Democratic candidates should be free of scrutiny, and keeping a close eye on them is a good thing.

However, this in particular reeks of "digging to find any dirt we can find whatsoever." Especially since Harris' involvement is borderline negligible. Seriously, you frame the article as though she locked the guy up, but she happened to be AG decades after the verdict (and, in fact, decades after the first round of DNA testing that the article failed to mention). Seriously, she's mentioned in passing in about one sentence. The request for this DNA testing the article brings up went to the Governor's office in February 2016, when, Harris might be, you know, a little preoccupied with that whole Senate race thing. The much more logical criticism is of Governor Brown, who A: was also AG during Cooper's time on Death Row and B: Is the one the article is really calling out.

There's not a lot to discuss because it didn't give us a lot to discuss, and you gave us even less. It's an op-ed that paints a very one-sided picture, and you've been shoving it in this thread's face saying "LOOK AT THIS ONE-INCH PART OF THE PICTURE."

So yeah. It doesn't come across as a good-faith discussion opener.

edited 12th Jun '18 7:37:32 AM by Larkmarn

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LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#245304: Jun 12th 2018 at 7:50:31 AM

Fair enough but I did actually mention the previous testing (there was enough corruption displayed to dispute the results.)

edited 12th Jun '18 7:59:35 AM by LordYAM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245305: Jun 12th 2018 at 7:55:27 AM

I'm at the point I want to replace every Republican with a blue one and would vote for Joe Bob the Fish Farmer if he wouldn't roll over for Trump or the establishment.

But I worry about people who are unelectable or have serious issues that might hurt the party in the long run.

Remember when John Edwards was going to be the next Presidential candidates.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#245306: Jun 12th 2018 at 7:58:09 AM

Something from today's developing WTF Just Happened Today feed:

The Senate adopted a measure that would block the Trump administration's deal with Chinese telecom giant ZTE. The Senate's move comes less than a week after Trump struck a deal with ZTE that would keep the company in business with U.S. companies and markets. The ZTE deal would have forced the company to pay $1 billion in penalties, reorganize itself, and insert U.S. compliance officers into the company in exchange for access to U.S. consumers. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-blocks-zte-deal-rebuke-trump-deal-n882196

The way it's written I can't work out of this block should be considered a good thing or not.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245307: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:02:43 AM

The company has spied on America and would continue to do it. It also is one of the companies which would benefit Trump's own businesses.

One billion in change is nothing.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#245308: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:04:35 AM

[up][up]John Edwards' campaign sank like a stone before the corruption and infidelity were widely reported. I'm not saying we didn't dodge a bullet when we kicked his ass out of the 2008 primaries, but we weren't actually at risk of him being nominated.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245309: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:06:06 AM

And this, everyone, is why we don't rely on op-eds for everything. Because often the writers of said op-eds are more or less full of shit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#245310: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:11:28 AM

I mean, I have to clarify that I am actually on the same side as the op-ed. I think that they should do the DNA testing and either it'll be surer that they're putting a guilty man to death or an innocent man will go free. I also agree it's important to hold our elected officials accountable... in this case, Governor Brown.

But even so, I'm not going to change my tune that Op-eds are terrible places to get information, and generally lousy discussion-starters.

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AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#245311: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:14:48 AM

Like I said, blatant Kamala Harris bashing, and from someone who barged into the thread to demand we all give Cenk and Sanders a fairer shake, then went onto make ageist comments about the likes of Feinstein.

We've seen this before. If you want to be taken seriously, stop acting like a stereotype of the entitled white "socialist" and give us something to work with. Something that isn't trying to pretend that a case Harris has next to nothing to do with is somehow evidence of her evil.

According to the article that you yourself linked, this is Jerry Brown's fault, not Kamala Harris'. Yet somehow she's the one you've chosen to blame while that of Brown—white, male—did not even enter the conversation until Larkman brought him up.

edited 12th Jun '18 8:16:14 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#245312: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:20:27 AM

So it seems Trump capitulated big-time over Korea. Like "unilaterally pulling US forces out of the peninsula without bothering to consult with anyone" capitulating.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245314: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:25:03 AM

I think it was a bad sign when they reached an agreement IN ONE DAY.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#245315: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:25:15 AM

I heard he was only pulling out of future exercises.

He did call Kim a funny, smart guy who loves his people; so it could be that Trump was charmed by yet another autocrat.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#245316: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:27:48 AM

[up][up][up] This is why you prepare for these meetings, Donnie, and not go into them completely unprepared but fully convinced of your own superiority.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#245317: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:29:19 AM

Got an article, full withdrawal is a goal but isn't in play for now. Of course Trump's word is worthless but shit hasn't hit the fan yet.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/kim-trump-success-for-north-korea-intl/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#245318: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:29:39 AM

The story, by the sound of it

Trump promised to order an end to regular war games that the U.S. conducts with South Korea as part of his concessions to North Korea at the nuclear summit with Kim Jong Un. Trump said he "developed a very special bond" with the North Korean leader, and said Kim had "reaffirmed" his commitment to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. "We’re ready to write a new chapter between our nations," Trump said at a press conference in Singapore. (Washington Post / New York Times)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-kim-summit-trump-says-we-have-developed-a-very-special-bond-at-end-of-historic-meeting/2018/06/12/ff43465a-6dba-11e8-bf86-a2351b5ece99_story.html?utm_term=.9062092d1277

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/world/asia/trump-kim-summitmeeting.html

edited 12th Jun '18 8:30:15 AM by sgamer82

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245319: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:30:34 AM

If I was a South Korean, I'd be feeling just a bit concerned about this.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#245320: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:44:03 AM

Frankly, it realistically couldn't have gone better. Trump was going to walk out of it with a win no matter what, and while both Trump's word and Kim's are pretty worthless, nothing more was feasibly going to happen.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#245321: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:44:34 AM

[up][up]Trust me, my family and I are feeling very concerned about this.

edited 12th Jun '18 8:44:41 AM by danime91

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245322: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:49:58 AM

This is terrible, I strongly hope that it comes to nothing and just ends up as one of Trump's promises that he inevitably fails to uphold.

[up][up]I think it's massively preemptive to call it a win for Trump, we should at-least wait and see if it comes to anything.

edited 12th Jun '18 8:51:06 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#245323: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:53:20 AM

Trump making what is blatantly some massive concessions for no real gain is a victory now?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#245324: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:55:18 AM

[up]Seriously, I get that his sycophants will spin it as such but there's no reason for us to pretend that it is.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#245325: Jun 12th 2018 at 8:56:05 AM

[up][up] I mean, they're technically both making big concessions (I don't think any Nuclear Nation has ever fully gotten rid of their nukes). I just don't trust North Korea at all, and until I see it, I won't believe it. Then again, I'm not sure how much I trust Trump to hold his end of the bargain either...

edited 12th Jun '18 8:56:16 AM by DingoWalley1


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