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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#245276: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:11:56 PM

[up]x4 Technically, when Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto, farmers (at least in the US) tended to be really poor due to the simple rules of supply and demand; they produced too much, making their products cheap, meaning they made very little in terms of money and were basically Land Poor (surprised this place has that info), and thus would've counted as the Proletariat. It wasn't until the Great Depression, where most farmers lost everything (either to Banks, natural disasters, or both), thus food wasn't being made, that they became subsidized.

I'm not sure how most of Europe treated Farmers at the time, but I have the feeling it wouldn't have been much better. And in nations like Russia, where most people were legally tied to the land they plowed, they would absolutely be considered the Proles of their society.

edited 11th Jun '18 8:13:22 PM by DingoWalley1

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245277: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:11:57 PM

Farmhands are employed primarily by the corporate farmers.

On many independent farms, the name for farmhand is, "family."

Of course, we keep running into this rich farmer fallacy which is about as insane as they can get.

Mind you, the collectivization of farming in the Soviet Union was one of the greatest expressions of class betrayal in their revolution.

edited 11th Jun '18 8:13:24 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#245278: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:14:53 PM

The point still stands, industrial farming is the only thing capable of feeding the growing population.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245279: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:17:36 PM

That seems like a different problem than the one of poverty.

There's no suggestion to switch from industrial farming to independent farming, merely protect a vulnerable class that exists and does contribute.

In our current economic climate, we have a lot of bullshit jobs. This would just be another and less bullshit than most.

edited 11th Jun '18 8:18:26 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245280: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:21:14 PM

[up]X3 Not saying they’re rich, but they stopped being working class when they started owning the land. Also farmhands are totally a thing for small farms, not an entire team, but one or two guys plus two adult aged kids. I’ve seen smaller, but let’s not pretend that more sizeable ones don’t exist.

[up]X4 Farmers in Russia didn’t own the land, they were tied to the crown’s land and forced to farm it, in the American context they’d have more in common with plantation slaves than modern land owning farmers.

[up] It doesn’t contribute in a meaningful way, and no most jobs arnet more bullshit, most jobs provide income for the worker. Unprofitable small businesses are one of the highest forms of bullshit jobs.

edited 11th Jun '18 8:23:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#245281: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:22:03 PM

They can't continue to contribute is the problem.

Their industry and way of life is over. Just like lamplighters and coal miners.

All we can do is make their change to a new life as easy as possible.

Oh really when?
Imca (Veteran)
#245282: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:22:09 PM

Okay I missed this one from Megaliz, but could you please explain what the issue is here?

I could have sworn that at diplomatic meetings between multiple countries the flags were suposed to be at the same height, and that the home country flag being higher then the other flags is for non-diplomatic purposes?

I am not a flag code expert though.... as in I know very little about it, hence asking.

edited 11th Jun '18 8:22:40 PM by Imca

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#245283: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:24:37 PM

It’s not about flag code, it’s just that people don’t like the US flag being out next to the North Korean one.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Imca (Veteran)
#245284: Jun 11th 2018 at 8:26:23 PM

.... But isn't it suposed to be a diplomatic meeting?

Though admitantly if its for that, it should be the South Korean flag and the North Korean flag.... or at most, South, North, and Amercian... not Amercian and North

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#245285: Jun 11th 2018 at 9:03:31 PM

http://theweek.com/speedreads/778354/imminent-murder-no-longer-qualifies-asylum-sessions-announces

Sessions is making it clear that your imminent murder is not an issue for the USA when considering asylum.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#245286: Jun 11th 2018 at 9:43:58 PM

I will also admit to not being sure about the flag issue. Yes, NK is a brutal dictatorship, but if the problem is that the American flag and the North Korean flag are at the same height and that makes us look like equals, then I'd argue that meeting Kim in an ostensibly diplomatic summit already legitimizes NK. Putting our flags a meter above theirs does nothing to change that, especially when the meeting is on Korean soil.

So... yeah. What's the general accepted practice for this, and why is this a violation? I will admit to thinking that AltUSPressSec has an overdramatic streak, so I'd like to be sure that this is actually worth getting upset about, and why.

[down]I stand corrected almost immediately, thanks. Let me correct myself to 'not on US soil', to spare myself a bit of embarrassment from not paying attention to news.

edited 11th Jun '18 9:49:37 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245287: Jun 11th 2018 at 9:46:32 PM

[up] The meeting is in Singapore.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#245288: Jun 11th 2018 at 10:36:51 PM

I think most people are just upset that the flag is next to that of a country ruled by an openly brutal dictator, with whom we were in a genuine war with at one point. Not any violation of flag code.

Imca (Veteran)
#245289: Jun 11th 2018 at 10:44:00 PM

Then that really doesn't make sense to me assuming good faith negotiations are intended.

You have to treat those your are negotiating with with respect, even if they are not respectable people.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245290: Jun 11th 2018 at 10:53:12 PM

As the tweet chain mentioned, this wasn't done during the Iran Nuclear Deal negotiation. It's not actually necessary.

This isn't "respect". This flag thing is Trump going the extra mile to suck up to Kim. It's disgusting. Especially in the wake of the G7 clusterfuck.

This is where we are now. The US President shits all over some of the USA's oldest allies and sucks up to dictators.

edited 11th Jun '18 10:55:46 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#245291: Jun 11th 2018 at 10:57:48 PM

Whether Trump is successfully impeached and convicted (highly unlikely, but we can hope), loses reelection in the next 2 years (likely and hopeful), or is reelected and serves another full term (God forbid), I wonder how he'll be received immediately after office.

The norm seems to be for the heart grow fonder after Presidents are out of office, will that be another way that Trump bucks the norm? We can only hope.

Imca (Veteran)
#245292: Jun 11th 2018 at 10:58:34 PM

Now not doing it for others is 100% a valid complaint, and treating NK better then long standing allies is not good.

But just treating them with respect would not be bad in and of its self.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#245293: Jun 11th 2018 at 11:32:30 PM

Well, you don't have to fly a flag to show someone respect.

And quite frankly, given the people involved, I'm not at all convinced that "good faith" is in operation in here.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#245294: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:12:07 AM

Then again supposedly there are conservatives who got upset over the U.S. flag being flown at equal height to the Swedish one outside a goddamn Ikea store.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245295: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:13:02 AM

[up] The same ones will no doubt be cheering this as a sign of good faith since Trump is the one doing it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#245296: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:19:17 AM

As the person who brought up Kamela Harris earlier I am still a little puzzled why people didn't comment as much on the NY Times article. Harris has certainly done a lot of good (hell I actually defended her on twitter a little bit when some guys made the "oh she cares more about illegal immigrants than black people) and she did ultimately reverse her stance.

The issue I had was that she presents herself as very progressive, fighting for the little guy, combating injustice.....

And here comes a death row case that's literally up there with some of the worst excesses of the deep south (a brutal murder, a black man framed for a crime most likely committed by three white dudes, and shameless racism). His attorneys make a request for testing that will in all likelihood clear the matter up, and the state won't have to pay anything (so if the guy is guilty and the state proven right no taxpayer money will have been wasted, whereas if he's cleared again no taxpayer money was wasted.) Harris was in a position where she could have potentially righted an injustice....yet instead she just sat on it. And to add insult to injury she reverses her stance AFTER she can't really make as much of a difference AND after she got very publicly called out on it.

It doesn't undo the good work she's done, or that she would be a worthy president. But it's still a serious blunder at the very least and kinda clashes with the image of someone who combats injustice (since again she ignored a pretty fucking blatant one). And yet people either don't really care or dismiss it as "bashing" her. No comment on the guy currently facing execution on death row for a crime he most likely was framed for because apparently that matters less than that someone said something mean about Kamela harris.

edited 12th Jun '18 12:24:41 AM by LordYAM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245297: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:28:02 AM

[up] Is there a reason you keep bringing this up? Bringing up the same topic over and over again insisting that the rest of the thread respond is not the right way to go about things.

And don't try to judge people here just because we didn't respond to you. Not cool.

Disgusted, but not surprised
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#245298: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:46:28 AM

Note, it's actually international code that flags are the same height, the IKEA idiocy was done moron complaining that the US flag wasn't higher than the rest

"You can reply to this Message!"
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#245299: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:48:48 AM

I was more irritated that it was dismissed as "Kamela Harris bashing" at the time or that it was just "irrelevant". Considering Harris's image as someone who combats injustice the fact that she ignored a pretty glaring one seemed rather hypocritical. I'd have thought it was worth a bit more comment.

I've also been following this case for longer than I've even heard of Kamela Harris, so I found Ambar's accusation that I was just demonizing her to be rather insulting.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#245300: Jun 12th 2018 at 12:53:19 AM

[up][up] I mean, I don't even like IKEA very much and I stll think that's incredibly stupid.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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