Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I really hope all of our former allies don’t cave in this trade war thing and retaliate properly. If it causes a recession so be it, that might be the only way to convince at least some people that Trump and the Republicans are not good governors, though the right-wing media machine will probably blunt that.
I honestly don’t see a way out of this until most of my older generations are dead. And that’s assuming that they haven’t successfully indoctrinated enough of their children.
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
While the right-wing media does not control nearly as much of the media (barring things like radio and now local news), the mainstream media has proven pretty ineffectual due to their centrist bias and push for ratings, allowing them to treat the far right as roughly equivalent to the center-left
They'll just find a way to blame Democrats like they always do. Failing that, they'll fall back on the "well Obama did bad things tooooooooooooooo!" non-argument, which is basically the right-wing Hail Mary.
A lot of them have. Hoping right-wing regressiveness dies with older generations is just wishful thinking.
i'm tired, my friendI am just saying how it is. It will take ages before the international community will trust the US again after this stunt. And no, I don't think it was just an "accident", the underbelly of the US showed its ugly face. We are not talking about minority opinions, there is mainstream support for Trumps BS. And the only ones who can claim some innocence in all this are the people who actually voted Democrat or would have but were prevented from voting. But the reality is that in the end, it won't make a difference because what a state does reflects on all the people living in a state.
It's also typically based on how something feels than anything factual.
All this "all american sare to blame for Trump" is pointless "herp de derp we're so much better than the americans lololol" wanking, which damn near seems to be a pastime for some of you motherfuckers.
edited 10th Jun '18 5:30:42 AM by PhysicalStamina
i'm tired, my friendSaid every person who mistakes rudeness for 'honesty', thinks showing respect is 'political correctness' or has the delusion that their viewpoint must be the correct one because only they have the one true clarity of mind to see it.
Which generally tends to be behaviors of the very people you condemn.
edited 10th Jun '18 5:29:27 AM by 3of4
"You can reply to this Message!"Federal elections, 1932, 37.27% support for Adolf Hitler with a voter turnout of 82.5 %. Thirty percent of the country voted directly for Adolf Hitler.
Federal elections 2016, 46% support for Donald Trump, voter turnout of 58 %. Twenty-six percent of the country voted directly for Donald Trump.
So no, you're not saying it how it is, you're being a numpty.
edited 10th Jun '18 5:44:04 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Incidentally, one thing just occured to me. That was Trump sucking this hard at negotiating with people who are supposed to be his allies. What does that say about his upcoming capacity to negotiate with an enemy?
And Swanpride isn't wrong. Fact is, no matter how many Americans you point to who hate Trump, he still got into office, and is currently not much more opposed by his people than your average world leader. The fact that he was carried into the White House by the electoral college rather than popular vote makes it worse, not better — the very political structure of the United States virtually guarantees that every four to eight years, it is going to be run by racist, anti-science reactionaries who resent the very idea of international co-operation. Even if you vote for a super-awesome president next time, it's not going to fix everything because as long as the political structure of the US is what it is, the Republicans are inevitably just going to be back in power in a couple of years, and are liable to overturn every agreement made in the meantime out of principle.
This isn't me criticizing democratic change in government, by the by, because I don't believe there's anything democratic about Trump's election. US state apparatuses like the Electoral College are part of what allows the GOP a guarantee on power every few years no matter what, and as long as that is the case I can't look on the United States as a reliable partner. No matter how much many Americans may hate Donald Trump from the bottom of their hearts.
![]()
First and foremost, I'd do everything I legally can to put the Republican Party in proverbial timeout. Second, I'd nix the Electoral College and instate a Popular Vote system. Then I'd tackle voter suppression and gerrymandering. Then I'd do things like complete overhaul of the prison and police systems and instating a universal healthcare system.
Just off the top.
What we're saying is blaming even people who voted for Clinton for Trump's win just because they also happen to be American doesn't make any fucking sense. So yeah, she is wrong in that aspect.
edited 10th Jun '18 6:04:23 AM by PhysicalStamina
i'm tired, my friend![]()
Exactly.
Also, it's not a matter of feeling…it has been decades and Germans are still called Nazis for what they ancestors have done. It is a matter of experience. And it is a matter of mentality because, guess what, I will feel responsible if my country falls down again. I feel horrible for the mere existence of the Af D and the likes of Pegida, and yes, I will apologize to foreigners for them being part of the same society I am, even if I personally condone nothing of what they do. Because if you live in a State, you can't simultaneously be proud of the good thing said state as done and take no responsibility for the bad things.
I don't blame them. You are misrepresenting what I am saying. There is a difference between "this is your fault" and "it is your responsibility to do whatever you can to fix this".
edited 10th Jun '18 6:13:32 AM by Swanpride
![]()
Good for you, you're a nice little upstanding citizen. Let's all bask in what a good person you are.
If you expect me, however, to be The Atoner for shit I voted specifically to prevent just because you personally choose to take the blame for German Naziism, you're out of your fucking mind.
edited 10th Jun '18 6:09:17 AM by PhysicalStamina
i'm tired, my friendI take a minor solace in the fact that a strong majority of my generation has consistently voted against Republicans, though the fact that there was greater third party support in the most recent election was less then ideal to say the least.
![]()
Didn't say anything of this kind either. I am talking about being responsible for the country you live in and not being able to divorce yourself from its actions because that is the nature of a community.
Which, btw, is a point of view the Americans themselves instilled in us Germans, so don't complain to me that I believe in it.
edited 10th Jun '18 6:18:39 AM by Swanpride
The next idiot who holds the American people, as a people and humans themselves, responsible for the actions of their government will be ignored. Or yelled at.
The moment somebody does that with any people, I stop listening to them, because this will inevitably descend into nationalist wanking about how much better their country is. I have seen this happen regardless of political leanings too many times.
Case in point: certain British left-wingers who disdain nationalism yet go on and on about how much better Britain is than America, and how all Americans are idiots compared to them. These are the same guys who are anti-Empire yet think Hongkongers would be happy under the British once more. Answer: no, we don't want you back at all, we still crack jokes about you people being drunks for starters.
edited 10th Jun '18 6:28:06 AM by TheWildWestPyro
![]()
The democrats have been surprisingly quite on that, I guess because they can be easily dismissed as "sore-losers", and accused of engaging in attempts to get illegal immigrants to vote or something.
I'm genuinely uncertain as to how excited people would get about electoral reform, or if the media would cover it as opposed to it just being drowned out in the morass of Trump shenanigans.
![]()
Not the point.
What makes me happy is that so many people are now getting off their butt in the US. People running for offices in which previously really disgusting people were running unchallenged. The Parkland movement (not directly related to Trump, except it kind of is). The Me too movement (same there). And a noticeable swing towards Democrats.
Oh, and Obama now fighting against gerrymandering and voter suppression is also great.
edited 10th Jun '18 6:44:11 AM by Swanpride

You know, I can't help noticing that Trudeau is at least the same height as Trump and may be an inch or so taller.
Has anyone else noticed that when Trump has group photos in and around the Oval Office, it's very common for all the short men to be gathered around him and the tall men are pushed to the outskirts of the photo. This has happened so many times, that I've been wondering if it's deliberate: I also notice that the official shots of Trump and Comey (before Comey was fired) mostly occurred where Comey and Trump were either not in the same shot together, or the camera angle occurred from the ground upwards, which hid (or at least minimised) the height difference.
Given how petty Trump is and that he's willing to get into public spats about his real height, I'm wondering if he also takes a dislike to men who rival or beat him in height.
edited 10th Jun '18 5:08:46 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.