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megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244401: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:02:51 PM

Explainer on the Masterpiece Cakeshop Supreme Court Decision.

OK. By request, a mini Masterpiece Cakeshop lawsplainer.

The hard question presented by the case was this: did Colorado's anti-discrimination law violate the baker's First Amendment rights, to the extent it compelled him to create a cake for a same-sex wedding? /1

/2 The Supreme Court sided, 7-2, with the baker. But the Court did so on much narrower grounds than the baker, and advocates, hoped for.

The Court DID NOT resolve the conflict between religious belief and anti-discrimination law.

/3 In fact, the Court expressly declined to resolve that. Instead, the Court found that the question has to be resolved through a process free of religious bias and animus violating the First Amendment, and that here the Colorado administrative procedure showed clear bias.

/4 Put another way, the Court said "however the question comes out, the decision-makers can't get there through express hostility to religious beliefs." The Court found that the Colorado administrative process showed just that anti-religious bias.

/5 There's an array of concurring and dissenting opinions that don't change the result, but that's the core opinion of the Court. So: the tension between anti-discrimination and the First Amendment is left for another day, but Civil Rights Commissions can't indulge in gratuitous anti-religious rhetoric in the process of weighing such claims. /end

So basically this whole ruling is about a procedural technicality, and only is relevant to this particular case. In fact Justice Kennedy wrote that other cases may be decided differently based on the specific circumstances.

edited 4th Jun '18 3:09:18 PM by megaeliz

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#244402: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:14:40 PM

But everywhere I've seen it discussed everyone is going on about the evils of anti-discrimination laws and the like and how this proves that the government is doing the right thing by forcing them out.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244403: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:15:48 PM

[up] Because people misunderstand what it actually meant.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244404: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:16:04 PM

People see what they want to see.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244405: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:19:41 PM

The claim that this can't be used to support future discrimination is wrong—the fact that the right is claiming victory should be indicative of that.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244406: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:25:23 PM

[up] It's not the ruling itself that's a problem then. It's how it's being portrayed In the media.

They are just ruling on a procedural technicality, not the outcome of the case itself.

edited 4th Jun '18 4:37:15 PM by megaeliz

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#244407: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:37:05 PM

@Northmann Actually, Germany moved a huge portion of the gold reserve back to Germany (half of it) and relocated some of it to France on top of it. Not that the US was happy about it. I still think that the way the whole transaction went was very suspicious. As if the US had to "find" the gold first.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#244408: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:39:58 PM

[up] I've always suspected the US just sold some of our gold under the hand, to be honest - hence why they dragged their feet on actually letting German envoys see it when requested.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#244409: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:41:56 PM

[up] Me too...but for now most of the gold is back where it belongs, some of it is in France and the UK and what is left in the US is still a lot, but not so much that they can crash our economy at will.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#244410: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:42:15 PM

And now we have something to agree with the Koch brothers with: three Koch-affiliated groups are planning a multi-million dollar ad campaign to promote free trade and call for Trump to stop his tariffs.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#244411: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:48:30 PM

Seems like all those right wing millionaires are starting to regret their purchase and wish to return it. Sorry, but no refunds on this one.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244412: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:52:01 PM

Aside from the isolationist/nationalist nutters, Trump has few allies on trade. The left opposes him on principle, and realizes the economic and diplomatic disasters being set up. The right sees tariffs as more taxes (and they aren't wrong), and also like money enough to not throw theirs into a furnace. Industries aren't stupid and know there no winning here.

The Koch bastards are learning that they can't control their new attack dog.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#244413: Jun 4th 2018 at 3:56:33 PM

The claim that this can't be used to support future discrimination is wrong—the fact that the right is claiming victory should be indicative of that.

Not legally, it can't.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244414: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:04:19 PM

Does the law matter in this administration?

How many times has it broken the law in a direct, clear, and unequivocal way with no consequence?

edited 4th Jun '18 4:04:47 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#244415: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:11:20 PM

[up]Don't be ridiculous, of course the law still matters. If the precedent had allowed for anti-LGBT discrimination then that would be a terrible thing, but it doesn't which is good. Whether the Republicans respect the law or not is irrelevant, businesses do and they're the one's who this is aimed at.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#244416: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:31:26 PM

Trump cancels Eagles' visit.

Explicit reason is because they didn't send their whole team thus,disrespected him.

What a fragile little flower.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#244417: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:32:35 PM

The Philadelphia Eagles were going to send a small delegation to the White House, but Trump didn't want them coming over their disagreements about the anthem, so he's going to turn what was supposed to be a celebration of the Superbowl winners into a nationalistic event.

What is up with me and the partial [nja]s today?

edited 4th Jun '18 4:33:14 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#244418: Jun 4th 2018 at 4:49:18 PM

Ronald Reagan's daughter says her father wouldn't like Donald Trump

Davis' extended criticism of the sitting President in her op-ed published Sunday came after she took to Facebook in 2016 to accuse Trump of inciting violence with his comments on the campaign trail.

Reagan's oldest son, Michael Reagan, has likewise taken issue with comparisons between Trump and Reagan, and claimed in 2016 that his father would not have voted for Trump.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#244419: Jun 4th 2018 at 5:08:10 PM

The Supreme Court decision might embolden bigots, but it has basically zero effect on the law. So bigots will continue to deny service and those cases will continue to be challenged in court. Basically the status quo has been preserved for now.

As to whether those new cases will win, that depends on local judges. There is no general "law of the land" at this point. That's explicitly what the Supreme Court refused to do here.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244420: Jun 4th 2018 at 5:18:51 PM

[up] Considering all of the judges that Trump appointed, that's not exactly encouraging.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#244421: Jun 4th 2018 at 5:33:58 PM

Not legally, it can't.

Exactly. The Right is claiming victory for the same reason the Left is claiming defeat: because both are reading into this ruling that the Supreme Court overwhelmingly voted in favor of anti-religious discrimination.

Because law is complicated and people prefer the broad picture version to fine details. "SUPREME COURT OVERTURNS ANTI-RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION LAWS" is a snappier headline than "Supreme Court Has Beef With Inappropriate Semantic Phrasing Embedded In Judicial Ruling Indicative Of Potential Bias, Thus Is Forced To Demand Retrial With New, Better Phrased Outcome."

This kind of shit is why Law is one of the most expensive and comprehensive academic subjects that people can study, and why lawyers are paid so goddamn much. Law is built on precise semantics. Two words here or there can completely ruin your entire case.

edited 4th Jun '18 5:35:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#244422: Jun 4th 2018 at 5:46:03 PM

I'm reading the ruling now, which can be found here. This stands out.

As the record shows, some of the commissioners at the Commission’s formal, public hearings endorsed the view that religious beliefs cannot legitimately be carried into the public sphere or commercial domain, disparaged Phillips’ faith as despicable and characterized it as merely rhetorical, and compared his invocation of his sincerely held religious beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Holocaust. No commissioners objected to the comments. Nor were they mentioned in the later state-court ruling or disavowed in the briefs filed here. The comments thus cast doubt on the fairness and impartiality of the Commission’s adjudication of Phillips’ case.

Yeah. Uh. Guys? If you're supposed to be a neutral law agency, don't compare people to the f*cking Holocaust on the record.

edited 4th Jun '18 5:48:02 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244423: Jun 4th 2018 at 6:29:02 PM

Until another ruling clarifies matters...this doesn't send a good message regardless. This will embolden the bigots in the USA. Regardless of the technicalities, if an LGBTQ+ citizen felt a little less safe in the USA after this, I honestly couldn't blame them.

edited 4th Jun '18 6:29:14 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244424: Jun 4th 2018 at 6:32:01 PM

This story just broke. I wonder if this is what set off his Twitter tantrums. (From AP).

Mueller Accuses Paul Manafort of Attempted Witness Tampering

WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort made several attempts to tamper with witnesses in his ongoing criminal cases, prosecutors said Monday as they asked a federal judge to consider revoking his house arrest.

In a court filing, prosecutors working for special counsel Robert Mueller wrote that Manafort and one of his associates "repeatedly" contacted two witnesses in an effort to influence their testimony. The contacts occurred earlier this year, shortly after a grand jury returned a new indictment against Manafort and while he was confined to his home.

Court documents do not name Manafort's associate, but they refer to him as "Person A" and note the pseudonym is consistent with previous filings in the case. In earlier filings, Person A has referred to Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime Manafort associate who prosecutors have said has ties to Russian intelligence.

The two witnesses are also not named in court filings. But prosecutors say they worked with Manafort in organizing a group of former European officials, known as the Hapsburg Group, who promoted Ukrainian interests in Europe as well as the U.S.

According to the court filing, Manafort began messaging and calling one of the witnesses in February shortly after a federal grand jury in Washington returned a superseding indictment against him that included allegations of unregistered lobbying related to the Hapsburg Group.

Manafort messaged and called one of the witnesses the day after his co-defendant and business partner, Rick Gates, pleaded guilty and continued reaching out over the next several days, according to a sworn affidavit filed by an FBI agent in the case.

In one call, the agent wrote, Manafort said he wanted to give the person a "heads-up about Hapsburg." The individual then hung up "because he was concerned about the outreach," according to the affidavit.

On Feb. 26, Manafort sent the person a series of messages through an encrypted application, including a link to a Business Insider story with the headline: "Former European leaders struggle to explain themselves after Mueller claims Paul Manafort paid them to lobby for Ukraine." Another message said, "We should talk. I have made clear that they worked in Europe."

The person told investigators that he interpreted Manafort's efforts to reach him as a way to influence his potential statements. The person believed from his experience that the Hapsburg Group lobbied in the United States and knew that Manafort knew that as well, the agent wrote.

Manafort faces several felony charges in two federal cases. He has pleaded not guilty.

edited 4th Jun '18 6:36:24 PM by megaeliz


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