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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244201: Jun 2nd 2018 at 11:52:27 AM

Whether you think that Ivanka deserves an apology or not, I do think illustrating the difference between someone like Bee, who just sincerely (sounding) apologizes and moves on, and the right who at best only offer half-apologizes while trying to downplay as much responsibility is important.

And, yeah, I do think a lot of people do notice the difference.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244202: Jun 2nd 2018 at 11:58:55 AM

Regarding Samantha Bee, some of the stuff she said was genuinely Dude, Not Funny!, such as her crack about how Ivanka should wear a low-cut top while asking Trump not to break up families. Whether Ivanka deserves that isn't the point, we shouldn't be encouraging that kind of attitude toward women.

Bull. Trump publicly stated he'd bang his daughter if she wasn't related to him. Joking about her seducing him became fair game after that. Half the comedians in the world have made jokes about it, and no one outside the hard right has pitched a fit about it. There a reason we're suddenly holding Bee to a higher standard? Aside from the fact that she's a woman and some of us apparently have this urge to be "fair" to the right after they lost Roseanne?

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#244203: Jun 2nd 2018 at 12:03:34 PM

So, um, let's talk about the economy report yesterday. Apparently the economy is booming. While this is obviously good news (although it goes without saying that I can't stand Trump gloating nonstop about it), I'm concerned we're gonna lose 2018 and 2020 because of it.

Don't. An improving economy did not save Reagan, Bill Clinton, or Obama from having the alternate party take over at least one house of Congress their first Midterm. Combined with Trump's personality, and the Tariffs he's unilaterally forcing which will hurt Americans sooner or later, the Democrats are in a prime position to win at least the House (although they also are getting a better chance at taking the Senate every day).

edited 2nd Jun '18 12:03:52 PM by DingoWalley1

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#244204: Jun 2nd 2018 at 12:05:00 PM

Also, you can probably thank Obama for any economic growth over the past few years.

They should have sent a poet.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#244205: Jun 2nd 2018 at 12:13:16 PM

Right now, the trade war is projected to cost almost 150K jobs just in the short term.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#244206: Jun 2nd 2018 at 12:40:49 PM

What's short term in this context?

edited 2nd Jun '18 12:41:00 PM by Parable

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#244208: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:03:01 PM

Don't. An improving economy did not save Reagan, Bill Clinton, or Obama from having the alternate party take over at least one house of Congress their first Midterm. Combined with Trump's personality, and the Tariffs he's unilaterally forcing which will hurt Americans sooner or later, the Democrats are in a prime position to win at least the House (although they also are getting a better chance at taking the Senate every day).
This. The fact that Trump and the Republicans are doing so terribly electorally when the economy is booming is something that should be seen as a good sign, imagine how bad it could get for them if the economy gets worse?

It absolutely would be a mistake to assume that 2018 and 2020 are lost causes because of this.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:03:23 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#244209: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:04:41 PM

On a side note, I've seen some Pro-trump stuff being put into the Moving the Goalposts real life section, about the electoral college. I don't think I can edit it out, but are there any other examples of this sorta thing?

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#244210: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:07:41 PM

[up]Let the idiot who wrote that have his blurb.

Counting counties still amounts to valuing empty parcels of land more than actual people. The "3000 counties" Trump won may as well be rotten boroughs.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:08:41 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244211: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:08:47 PM

[up][up]I assume you mean parts like these:

While she won the nomination to run for president, this was only after an intensely heated Primary against Senator Bernie Sanders and getting a concession by pledging to adopt some of Sanders' positions as her own. And after all that, Clinton still lost to Donald Trump, despite "winning" the popular vote (technically; about 47% of the USA didn't vote for anyone in 2016), due to the Electoral College.

Of individual counties, Trump won over 3000 counties. Hillary Clinton won under 100. There are only about 3150 counties total. Trump won the Electoral College by a margin not seen for over 30 years. But the complaint that Trump didn't win the "popular vote", so he wan't the winner, according to some. Which ignores that the electoral college was designed to prevent exactly such victories as someone who lost the county/state wide elections by a massive margin, but got the most populous cities to gain enough popular votes to ignore the majority of the country. This further moves the goal posts of being declared "legitimate" by various democrat supportive pundits and news organizations.

Because I'd agree that the reasoning here misses what Moving the Goalposts actually is.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:12:05 PM by LSBK

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#244212: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:14:40 PM

There's also an unnecessary addition to Disease Bleach where it was simply added that trump said the presidency was a hard job. Now that, I'm considering removing.

Edit: Seems I remembered wrong. It's not there.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:15:24 PM by fruitpork

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244213: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:15:10 PM

That's not an example of Moving The Goalposts and can be cut as such. Tropes don't exist so they can be twisted to someone's political agenda; purge it.

phantom1 Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#244214: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:17:05 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/steel-tariff-maple-syrup-toilet-paper-1.4686833?cmp=rss

So here is a list of the actual items that Canada is planning on putting tariffs on, which is a lot of seemingly random stuff that is mostly targeting certain State industries. Just in case you wanted the non-satire article version.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#244215: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:17:30 PM

I cut it. Hopefully there's not an Edit War.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244216: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:18:38 PM

If there is, alert the mods. You're not the one breaking the rules.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:21:07 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#244217: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:32:58 PM

Re: The US economy, I'm not really surprised, he hasn't exactly done much with regards to it yet. Big tax cut to people who won't spend the money anyway, so that won't cause much economic stimulation other than blowing bubbles in the stock market, removal of a bunch of regulations that were only marginally useful, tiny and thus mostly irrelevant infrastructure program.

Personally I'm betting that the next crash will be China, not the USA, since they have a massive private debt bubble. The US and UK do too, but less of one and we've only just reached the levels of private debt we had pre-crisis. If deregulation causes a crash I doubt it will be so soon it actually hits Trump's first term. The tax cut is a rounding error, you can easily afford it and the actual impact will be a lot less than the amount it technically spends, since the rich have a low marginal propensity to consume and velocity of money is very low, so you don't get much of a multiplier.

Barring a massive escalation of this trade war things might even continue being good up to 2020, assuming he doesn't actually repeal Obamacare or an Outside Context Problem comes along and smacks us in the face.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:33:44 PM by DeathorCake

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#244218: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:36:40 PM

Of individual counties, Trump won over 3000 counties. Hillary Clinton won under 100. There are only about 3150 counties total. Trump won the Electoral College by a margin not seen for over 30 years.
This isn't moving the goalposts, it's just wrong. Clinton won 487 counties, while Trump won 2,626. According to Snopes and FactCheck.org, the "under 100" claim comes from a Brietbart article that claims that Trump won 3,084 of 3,141 counties "in America’s heartland", without specifying what counts as "America's heartland" (and is wrong in any case, because there are 3,141 counties in the entire country, and Trump won considerably less than 3,084 of them).

Hilariously, the second part — that Trump won the Electoral College by a margin not seen in 30 years — is only true if you're ignoring Democratic wins. Both of Obama's wins and both of Bill Clinton's wins were by a larger margin than Trump's. Both of George W. Bush's were less, though, so you have to go back to George H. W. Bush in 1992 to get a Republican Electoral College win larger than Trump's.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:37:55 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#244219: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:38:42 PM

Also Counties aren't population.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244220: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:42:14 PM

[up][up][up]The trade war is already escalating, there's no way Trump will back off barring the GOP growing some stones and forcing him. And that would cost them support from the right.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#244221: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:43:38 PM

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/sesta-fosta-forces-sex-trafficking-victims-streets-dark-web-w520720

The follow-up to sex-trafficking laws which outlawed personals in the internet is devastating.

Oh, look, it's exactly what I said was going to happen. Criminalizing sex work causes more harm than good. It empowers sex traffickers, because when the entire industry is criminal, it becomes harder to separate the criminals in the industry from the other criminals in the industry.

When there is a demand for a service that cannot be met legitimately, it will be met illegitimately. And that means illegitimate providers become the number one source. Traffickers, pimps, and the like have the resources necessary to edge out their competition if it's all considered to be on the same playing field.

This is literally how Prohibition resulted in the mafia.

Criminalization of sex work hurts women and undermines efforts to fight sex trafficking. It makes victims of the people it claims to help and puts a legal haystack around the needles that actually need to be found. It is and always has been morally wrong, and it continues to be perpetuated by men in power who want an excuse to retain their control over women's sexuality.

edited 2nd Jun '18 1:45:09 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244222: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:43:56 PM

In the seeming inevitable event of massive job loses, who are they going to blame? Democrats/liberals I'm assuming, but what's the angle?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244223: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:48:27 PM

Dems, the media, the bureaucracy. Probably go the nationalist route and blame countries that dared to strike back.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#244224: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:54:54 PM

[up][up][up][up]

The current projection for job losses is what, 150k? That's not going to cause a recession, it'll just sting a bit. I'm not saying this was a good idea, if you want to reduce Chinese imports then raise quality standards or devalue the dollar a bit, but it won't cost him that many votes given a good chunk of people who lose their jobs will either not connect it to the tariffs or blame it on "those damn other countries retaliating" rather than Trump increasing steel costs for every American buyer.

Look, if he banned all imports from everywhere you'd lose about 3.5% of GDP worth of stuff. That's a lot, and it would have serious ripple effects, but the US is too big for a tariff war to seriously screw it over in the middle of a cyclical upswing, especially when most of the US doesn't want one. What this MIGHT do is accelerate the debt bubble pop in China, which will cause immense misery and hardship to people who aren't Donald Trump, so who cares, right?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#244225: Jun 2nd 2018 at 1:55:03 PM

Most likely ramp up rhetoric and blame foreigners and illegal immigrants,it's a tried and tested formula of when things go wrong blame the outsiders

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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