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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244126: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:27:27 AM

I guess if there's anything to learn from the whole mess, it's "don't give Roseanne Barr a show again."

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244127: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:29:52 AM

Though there were rumblings of doing another show with all the cast members except for her. Don't know if that's actually going to go anywhere.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244128: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:36:45 AM

Mueller seems to be investigating meetings that Richard Gerson, a Hedge Fund Manager and friend of Jared Kushner's, had with Russian and UAE officials in Seychelles, around the same time as Erik Prince meant with .

He was said to have secretly meant with Prince Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, and importantly, George Nader, a Lebanese-American businessman, who organized the Eric Prince meeting, and who has already flipped in the investigation. He also attended a a secret meeting between MBZ, and Trump top officials, including Nader and Kushner.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/jared-kushner-close-friend-rick-gerson-now-under-scrutiny-mueller-n876361

edited 1st Jun '18 10:39:14 AM by megaeliz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#244129: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:50:19 AM

I haven't seen the show, but from the conversation here, it sounds like it's biggest problem is the issue of privileged liberalism. Mainly: privileged people wanting to make social agendas revolve around us, happen on our time schedule, have all their moves and decisions vetted by us, etc,

It's not unfair to say that many prejudices are fueled by ignorance, and that countless problems could be resolved by people being more educated about others before leaping to conclusions about them.

It is unfair that minority groups should carry the burden of educating those people on their shoulders. There are few things so privileged as the idea that, as a black person, you should have to turn in to me a five-page essay on why I should let you exist. And then do the same thing for every other white person you meet.

I'm reminded of an old show, All in the Family. The show revolved around a grumpy old racist white guy who hated everyone. He was intolerant of everyone and everything under the sun, and episodes often revolved around him having to learn about why his way of treating people is so shitty.

But the people he mistreated were allowed to react like people being mistreated, and repay his hostility in kind. Usually, the people whose job was to sit down to him and explain why his behavior's unacceptable were his daughter and his son-in-law, and then the burden would be on him to make amends to the folks he offended.

edited 1st Jun '18 10:56:10 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#244130: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:11:10 AM

Another issue here is that Rosanne Conner or Archie Bunker don't really change or reconsider their broader views. Even if Roseanne and Archie apologize to individuals they know personally, they'll still be bigots and support policies that hurt people like the people they apologized to.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244131: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:16:30 AM

Well, I think that was supposed to be the point of Archie Bunker. He didn't really change, as many people like him don't, but he was wrong, and you weren't supposed to sympathize with him for that. Roseanne seemed to want her character to at least get sympathy, even if (ostensibly) you're supposed to see her in the wrong.

But even with Archie Bunker a lot of people apparently didn't actually get that you were supposed to think he was in the wrong. Not really sure how much you can lay that on the show/writers though. People see what they want to see all the time.

edited 1st Jun '18 11:16:40 AM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244132: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:18:36 AM

Also, Bunker wasn't a fictionalized version of his actor and a mouthpiece for his views, he was obviously written as a flawed individual and not a loud speaker for reactionary BS.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#244133: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:20:24 AM

That is a fair point, I think. If we don't see Roseanne/Archie actually change, then it winds up validating their original view. Just because they declare the neighboring Muslim/Black family to be "one of the good ones" doesn't mean they're any less bigoted. If anything, it just reinforces the narrative that those people should have to justify themselves to white people before being accepted into the community.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244134: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:25:01 AM

A good summation would probably be that All In The Family was Fair for Its Day even if there were still some problems, while the Roseanne rebut, by contrast, is actually a regression of the former show.

Hearing about this Muslim episode brings to mind the two-parter(?) when D.J. doesn't want to kiss a black girl, and Dan and Roseanne both realize they might have some racial prejudices they didn't want to acknowledge, and are ashamed of that fact.

edited 1st Jun '18 11:25:42 AM by LSBK

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244136: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:13:44 PM

No wonder Trump was so mad when Sessions wouldn’t recuse himself.

His old Lawyer, in true mob style would use intimidation and threats against his opponents

just released tapes of Michael Cohen threating a journalist from the Daily Beast, who was writing about accusations of spousal rape from a formal wife.

"Mark my words for it, I will make sure that you and I meet one day over in the courthouse and I will take you for every penny you still don't have, and I will come after your Daily Beast and everybody else that you possibly know,”

"Do not even think about going where I know you're planning on going. And that's my warning for the day...”

..."So I'm warning you, tread very f***ing lightly because what I'm going to do to you is going to be f***ing disgusting. Do you understand me? Don't think you can hide behind your pen because it's not going to happen,”

"I'm more than happy to discuss it with your attorney and with your legal counsel because motherf***** you're going to need it...”

"...I think you should go ahead and write the story that you plan on writing; I think you should do it because I think you're an idiot, all right, and I think your paper is a joke," Cohen said. "And it's going to be my absolute pleasure to serve you with a $500 million lawsuit like ... I did to Univision.”

He's like a character out of an old mobster movie, down to literally being a "fixer" and the strong brookline accent, and everything.

edited 1st Jun '18 12:23:11 PM by megaeliz

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#244137: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:17:27 PM

T He problem with the episode is the same as with the movie Passengers.

It acknowledges that what the main character did was wrong but badly undersells how much.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#244138: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:36:46 PM

From post 243942, Hodor:

RE Blago, I actually hope his sentence is commuted. Perhaps I don't have the full facts, but it seems to me that his conduct was sleazy/meant he shouldn't be reelected, but not necessarily outright criminal.

He literally tried to sell a Senate seat, stating "I've got this thing and it's (expletive) golden," Blagojevich said in a conversation secretly recorded by government agents. "I'm not just giving it up for (expletive) nothing." That's not just sleazy, that's soliciting a bribe.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244139: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:43:02 PM

I'm persuaded the episode was tone-deaf, stupid, and racist.

But the point was Roseanne Connor (not Barr) did lose her Islamophobia and the Muslim family were going to be recurring characters from that point on. Which in a better show would have been interesting to see.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#244140: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:55:27 PM

The majority of Trump's pardons are of people who were convicted and known to be guilty of genuine crimes.

The only pardon of someone who was actually wronged was of Jack Johnson, and that was with celebrity backing and posthumous.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#244141: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:58:26 PM

That's what pardons are for anyway. I feel the issue here is less the admission of guilt (and again, it really comes off like Trump doesn't understand that's a part of it) and more the type and severity of the crimes committed by the people he has chosen.

Like, Joe Arpaio is a straight up monster.

edited 1st Jun '18 1:15:20 PM by LSBK

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244142: Jun 1st 2018 at 1:14:36 PM

Yes, yes he is.

He also escaped punishment for his crimes and embodying Corrupt Hick Dirty Cop Police Brutality.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244143: Jun 1st 2018 at 1:36:02 PM

People have faced the hangman or firing squads for doing what he did in wartime.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#244144: Jun 1st 2018 at 3:27:51 PM

So a white supremacist pedophile who went to prison for raping his ex-wife is running for Congress
WTF, that was disgusting to read. This fucker better lose, and bigly, or I will lose all faith in humanity.. Out of the woodwork.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#244145: Jun 1st 2018 at 4:30:29 PM

Trump says summit with North Korea still to go on.

...Can someone please explain to me what the fuck is going on here? How did it go from "Moon is feigning shock at talks completely breaking down" and "Trump wrote a pissy response playing up the U.S.' arsenal" to "it's back"? The hell is happening here?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#244146: Jun 1st 2018 at 5:56:30 PM

The majority of Trump's pardons are of people who were convicted and known to be guilty of genuine crimes.

The only pardon of someone who was actually wronged was of Jack Johnson, and that was with celebrity backing and posthumous.

Indeed, though admittedly, I'd say pardoning Martha Stewart is merited - she really shouldn't be permanently carrying the stigma of "convicted felon." Because nobody should - the way we treat ex-cons in this country is abominable. Her conviction and sentence were absolutely appropriate, and it's good to see that she got hammered, but she's served her time.

But the reason that she gets a pardon and an eighteen-year-old who got busted for selling marijuana doesn't is because she franchised with Trump years back.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244147: Jun 1st 2018 at 6:07:40 PM

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390297-schwarzenegger-mocks-trump-for-helping-coal-industry-protect-pagers

Arnold is right, they should switch jobs.

Edit:

I also believe people should make a blue and white hat for 2020.

"Make America Great Again Again. Vote Warren."

edited 1st Jun '18 6:29:45 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244148: Jun 1st 2018 at 6:30:44 PM

Just a reminder to all my fellow California posters that the primaries are on June 5th. If you're of voting age and registered, hope you're able to take the time to vote. Or sent your ballot via mail already.

[up]I doubt Warren's going to run for President. I think she thinks she's more useful as a Senator.

edited 1st Jun '18 6:32:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#244149: Jun 1st 2018 at 7:37:45 PM

Canada is considering tariffs on US beer: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/canada-considers-tariffs-on-us-canned-water/

edited 1st Jun '18 7:38:00 PM by Wariolander

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#244150: Jun 1st 2018 at 7:39:00 PM

[up] Most of our beer is watery swill, Canada wouldn't be missing much.


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