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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#244101: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:10:54 AM

[up][up]Well someone has to do all the shitty jobs that white people don't want to do. tongue

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244102: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:23:14 AM

No, it's about how Muslims have to be nice to paranoid jerks.

The episode ends with them waking them up at 2:00 am to deliberately refute that.

edited 1st Jun '18 8:23:40 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#244103: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:31:13 AM

The Muslim episode was like the race relations equivalent of Wants a Prize for Basic Decency. Okay, so she "learns" that Muslims are human beings. Hurrah, I guess. What a teaching moment, guys!

Like, the poor Muslim family having to patiently explain family and religious details to a bat-wielding lunatic at their door is the most egregious part. It's not funny, and it's not instructive when a character (and by extention, let's be honest, her actor) lack the basic empathy to think of a group of people as people. Brown people have been murdered by whites who think like Roseanne. It isn't a joke, and shouldn't be treated as one.

edited 1st Jun '18 8:33:23 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244104: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:34:35 AM

Exactly

Which is why the show was needed. We need shows that do show how harmful and scary the situation is. Roseanne in this is a bigot and her actions as well as the other white people in Lanford have terrified the family into their child believing he'll be killed at school.

The fact the kid owns a bulletproof vest isn't a joke and is a serious issue.

edited 1st Jun '18 8:39:09 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#244105: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:54:23 AM

If that episode was meant to deliver a positive message they sure picked a weird way to do it.

And let’s not forget that in the same episode undocumented immigrants are portrayed as job stealers.

They should have sent a poet.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244106: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:56:00 AM

That someone is trying to defend that episode is appalling to me. The episode informs Muslims that, in order to make their white neighbours comfortable, they must be prepared to be calm and rational at two in the morning when confronted by bat wielding lunatics. It also wants to pretend that said bat wielding lunatic will be won over, instead of simply taking this opportunity to use the bat, since she's at your door anyway.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#244107: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:00:29 AM

Okay, so she "learns" that Muslims are human beings. Hurrah, I guess. What a teaching moment, guys!
My sympathy for your sarcasm is limited by my recognition that too many Americans still haven't learned that lesson.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244108: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:01:14 AM

That review linked earlier said it best:

The message is clear: Even when white people approach you aggressively and talk to you crazy, it’s your job to explain oppression to them, be charming at all times, and never call them out in a way that will make them feel ashamed or chastised for their blatant disrespect.

The show’s staff has said that Barr personally asked for this storyline because she wanted to teach “tolerance and compassion” but what they presented last night was a self-indulgent, steaming pile of hot garbage.

The storyline showed no compassion for anything except for the fragile sensibilities of white America, while doubling down on every horrible stereotype imaginable. The Muslims in the episode had to be broke, meek, down on their luck and looking for a white messiah before they were allowed to be seen as human beings worthy of respect. God forbid if they had been able to afford their own prepared foods.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:02:07 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#244109: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:01:49 AM

My sympathy for your sarcasm is limited by my recognition that too many Americans still haven't learned that lesson.

And you know what those who haven't learned it are going to take away from that episode? That it's okay to threaten their neighbours with violence until they prove they're "one of the good ones."

If the episode saw Roseanne arrested for her actions, now that would be a teachable moment.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:02:46 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244110: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:02:58 AM

And the "best" part is that this whole sorry storyline was Barr's idea. Which probably partly explains why it's shit.

[up] Yeah, a better writer probably would have put her in jail for her antics.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:03:48 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#244111: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:18:31 AM

So a white supremacist pedophile who went to prison for raping his ex-wife is running for Congress

According to Larson’s campaign manifesto, his platform as a “quasi-neoreactionary libertarian” candidate includes protecting gun ownership rights, establishing free trade and protecting “benevolent white supremacy,” as well as legalizing incestuous marriage and child pornography.

In the manifesto, Larson called Nazi leader Adolf Hitler a “white supremacist hero.” He urged Congress to repeal the Violence Against Women Act, adding, “We need to switch to a system that classifies women as property, initially of their fathers and later of their husbands.” He also showed sympathy for men who identify as involuntary celibates, or incels, suggesting it is unfair that they “are forced to pay taxes for schools, welfare, and other support for other men’s children.”

Using the pseudonyms Leucosticte and Lysander, Larson frequently participated in conversations on his own message boards, he confirmed to Huff Post.

He also named himself after a 2nd rate Pokemon villain. Oh and is for raping virgins and father/daughter marriages (he has a 3 year old daughter btw) :/

Like, he's an independent, so he won't win, but God did Trump bring these monsters out of the woodwork. How long before THIS is seen as differing opinions?

edited 1st Jun '18 9:22:28 AM by NoName999

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#244112: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:21:55 AM

That someone is trying to defend that episode is appalling to me. The episode informs Muslims that, in order to make their white neighbours comfortable, they must be prepared to be calm and rational at two in the morning when confronted by bat wielding lunatics. It also wants to pretend that said bat wielding lunatic will be won over, instead of simply taking this opportunity to use the bat, since she's at your door anyway.

If said episode had instead had the Muslim family invoke the Castle Doctrine, I bet opinions would have been a leeeetle different.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#244113: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:23:25 AM

Huh - I am sure I've seen that name somewhere else. And not in a good context...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#244114: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:27:29 AM

[up] In Castle Doctrine states like Florida the Muslim family would have been legally permitted to shoot Rosanne as soon as she crossed their property line.

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244115: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:31:20 AM

Fun fact about the "job stealing illegals", there was an episode planned where Dan got to meet them and found out they weren't actually illegal. They were here on work visas and got shit from him and other contractors despite the fact Dan, himself, was employing them.

Which, again, makes sense because the whole point is the Connors are learning they're idiots and its written by 200 liberal writers.

That someone is trying to defend that episode is appalling to me. The episode informs Muslims that, in order to make their white neighbours comfortable, they must be prepared to be calm and rational at two in the morning when confronted by bat wielding lunatics. It also wants to pretend that said bat wielding lunatic will be won over, instead of simply taking this opportunity to use the bat, since she's at your door anyway.

I'm confused at how you think an episode that's about a family feeling threatened and terrified of white prejudice is supposed to go. The fact they do handle it nicely is to their credit despite the fact they are dealing with a despicable racist who ends up shamed.

And I don't even like the episode but it's a weird one to criticize because it's showing Islamophobia is not only unjustified but evil.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:33:26 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#244116: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:43:23 AM

~Charles Phipps

Not having watched the episode myself but following the discussions here, I think you might be missing a crucial point here. You can talk all you want about how an episode has an anti-racist and/or tolerant message, but the fact of it is none of that matters when the headlining star and title character of the show giving that message is a blatant, unrepentant bigot.

I think it's easy to see how that rather undermines the whole thing.


Changing gears a bit:

Texas school shooting victim's mother says talking to Trump "like talking to a toddler"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/santa-fe-school-shooting-texas-victims-mother-says-talking-to-trump-like-talking-to-a-toddler/

edited 1st Jun '18 9:45:14 AM by sgamer82

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244117: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:47:32 AM

Oh, there's no doubt Roseanne Barr is a disgrace.

She has sullied a progressive show that had meaning to a lot of people.

She's sullied her career.

She got a bunch of people with good careers and good heads on their shoulders fired.

And she made an embarrassment about one of the shows which could actually talk about racism, classicism, and the troubles in America.

I feel for everyone in this debacle but her—and yes, it feels ridiculous defending the show after her tweets so I am in the wrong here.

  • bows head*

I guess I'm prejudiced for the show because I finally got my mother talking about her Islamophobia being wrong because of that episode. It was having an effect on her and then, POOF. We've barely spoken since the election and it was a point to help us try to reconnect and her to realize what was wrong.

Ugh.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#244118: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:48:43 AM

[up][up]... this is why I hate Death of the Author (at least that's how I interpret the concept)

In other news, that's an insult to toddlers.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:49:09 AM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#244119: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:49:49 AM

Trump is a fucking insult to everything on the face of this planet. And the planets beyond our solar system.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#244120: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:50:31 AM

[up]x5 Maybe if they had aired that episode or made any indication that was the case we could have discussed it, but as is all we got was a character whining about how illegals steal all the jobs.

Don’t forget that as a work of fiction, a large part of the message comes from what the characters say and do. If I write a book where a character goes on long racist rants and then reveal later in an interview that I’d originally planned on making it a subversion the book is still racist.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:51:03 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#244121: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:53:03 AM

@031, Damn, When you think you've hit far-right bedrock, they pull out a diamond tipped megadrill.

Thank fuck the kid isn't in his custody...

edited 1st Jun '18 9:57:41 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#244122: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:58:39 AM

We had a Neo-Nazi nearly get on the ballot in California. We nearly had a guy with a history of accusations of sexually assaulting teenage girls become a Senator. And of course, Donald Trump is President.

In light of that...this honestly doesn't really surprise me. Admittedly, him actually winning somehow would surprise me somewhat.

edited 1st Jun '18 9:59:22 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#244123: Jun 1st 2018 at 9:59:11 AM

You've got me.

I concede. The set up only ends up racist.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#244124: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:07:47 AM

Trump's catchphrase "Drain the Swamp", has always been interesting to me.

Wetlands are critical and fragile areas, that provide incredibly important habitat, clean water, and flood protection. Draining them can have devastating ecological and hydrological consequences, including more flooding and habitat loss, among others. In fact, in many coastal areas, loss of wetland actually contributes to worse flooding and greater devastations from storms.

It's also funny, since he first used that catchphrase in Florida, which has a history of draining swamps, and causing environmental devastation, loss of fisheries, and greater flooding.

edited 1st Jun '18 10:10:11 AM by megaeliz

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#244125: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:17:18 AM

[up][up] I don't think we're talking about Roseanne anymore.

That said, I'm glad that episode did have a positive impact for you. It's unfortunate that was the exception, nor the rule.

edited 1st Jun '18 10:32:48 AM by sgamer82


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