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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#243176: May 22nd 2018 at 1:34:45 PM

Flynn Jr has been going on a bit of a Twitter meltdown lately, with vague warnings and threats.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/22/politics/michael-flynn-jr/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#243177: May 22nd 2018 at 1:38:08 PM

To play devil's advocate for a second, Roseanne being rich now doesn't mean she has absolutely no point of reference for what people like the Connor's would be like. I'm not totally versed on her growing up, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't super rich and definitely not pleasant.

I think her abusive father in the show was drawn from her actually abusive father. Which makes her apparently being okay with corporal punishment in the show even weirder but, yeah.

edited 22nd May '18 1:38:57 PM by LSBK

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#243178: May 22nd 2018 at 1:42:46 PM

[up][up] Hate to say this, but... so what? The guy is a Pizzagater. Him having a meltdown is par for the course, not that he's even really terribly relevant. He's always been an idiot saying random stuff on Twitter and never knew anything. Frankly, he's likely less in the know on anything than half the people in this thread.

edited 22nd May '18 1:43:40 PM by Larkmarn

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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#243179: May 22nd 2018 at 1:50:50 PM

He was his dad's assistant during a time in which Flynn had a lot of access to Trump and the inner circle, and he's surely in the know with regards to his father's legal proceedings.

I think its probably him melting down over dad going to jail and having to flip, maybe getting pissed at Trump and co for throwing him under the bus. I doubt he's a harbinger for bad news for Mueller, the Dems, etc.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#243180: May 22nd 2018 at 1:51:20 PM

[up]x6 I think the point still holds.

Have you listened to 5 minutes of Fox News lately?

I did last night, and it was like some twisted nightmare propaganda feeder. They were using terms like "deep state Russia Witch Hunt" and "Anti-Trump Hit Squad at the DOJ" completely seriously, and had an angle so wide, it could be seen from a mile away. They were pushing wild Conspiracy theories and are basically Trump's army of yes-men.

My grandma told me that presidents couldn't be impeached, and was still skeptical even after I pulled up article 2, section 4 of the constitution, which is the one discussing impeachment, for her to read, because Fox News knows better than the founding document of our country apparently.

I think it's best summed up by something my grandma said yesterday.

"There's Fox News, and there's everybody else, and one has to be lying."

edited 22nd May '18 1:54:24 PM by megaeliz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#243181: May 22nd 2018 at 2:09:45 PM

538 article on what happens if the GOP retains the House (a possibility, but not one the author considers the likely scenario, this is analysis rather than doomsaying).

1) GOP goes further ape-shit on healthcare, deregulation, the courts, welfare, the works. A weakened GOP Caucus in the House and Ryan gone means that the Freedom Caucus gets more influence.

2) Weakening of the investigation against Trump, as the Dems need control to initiate more hearings and such, and the electoral threat for moving against Mueller, etc is lessened if they get past 2018.

3) The Democrats flipping out. At the very least, Pelosi and other senior House leaders are toast, and the DNC leadership is probably on the chopping block to. Worst case scenario is further radicalization, and looking for a celebrity or someone like that to take on Trump.

4) The media getting introspective about over-covering Trump, being "out of touch" with Middle America, and possibly questioning why the Democrats keep losing elections despite winning the popular vote.

5) Foreign leaders determining that 2016 is the normal, and that the American electorate has endorsed protectionism, unilateralism, and rejecting traditional allies.

Any thoughts on this? Its worth hammering in how big the stakes are in November, more or less everything that already sucks right now will get worse if the GOP avoids electoral punishment.

edited 22nd May '18 2:10:37 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#243182: May 22nd 2018 at 2:09:49 PM

We're well past the Tyson Zone with the Trump administration.

edited 22nd May '18 2:10:15 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#243183: May 22nd 2018 at 2:45:00 PM

If the Dems do unexpectedly poorly in Nov, the entire country is going to go crazy. I wouldn't put violence in the streets out of the question, as frustrated progressives + unions clash with self-appointed armed militia members. Expect populists to take over both parties, and partisanship to reach new lows. The Republican donor class will push for more reactionary changes to law and regulatory policy, and people of color will begin to feel even more institutional and informal bigotry and discrimmination.

I think something good would come out of it eventually, as people look desperately at new solutions and candidates. Find someone who will stand against both corporate and government elites and a new political alignment might be born.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#243184: May 22nd 2018 at 2:46:49 PM

Right. Because it's "progressives" who are renowned for unleashing violence when they don't get their way.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#243185: May 22nd 2018 at 2:49:37 PM

The NSA will record the fact I sometimes wish they would.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#243186: May 22nd 2018 at 2:53:56 PM

I think something good would come out of it eventually, as people look desperately at new solutions and candidates. Find someone who will stand against both corporate and government elites and a new political alignment might be born.

Also, this is just a call for more populism, and we've had quite enough of that, thanks all the same. Desperation solutions are never good, and people promising to "take on the elites," are usually cranks.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#243187: May 22nd 2018 at 2:58:40 PM

Well, there was a dude who said, "Change" as his slogan.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#243188: May 22nd 2018 at 3:02:56 PM

Obama was an actual candidate with an actual platform. Not some nebulous "will stand up to the elites" candidate.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#243189: May 22nd 2018 at 3:06:06 PM

Progressives won't start the violence, but violence may start nonetheless. If militia start showing up to police protest actions, anything could happen. Not saying this is likely (personally, I think a Blue Wave is coming) but it isnt all that unlikely. This is what happens when socio-economic elites start locking down national wealth—people get frustrated and start looking for more extreme solutions. Wont be the first that it happened. That's where populist movements come from (also, not saying this is a good or a bad thing, just that it becomes more likely if the Republicans do unexpectedly well in 2018).

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#243190: May 22nd 2018 at 3:08:31 PM

[up] On Flynn Jr.'s twitter meltdown, I did managed to find this from before the Flynn indictments dropped.

Flynn worries about son in special counsel probe

Washington (CNN)Former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn has expressed concern about the potential legal exposure of his son, Michael Flynn Jr., who, like his father, is under scrutiny by special counsel Robert Mueller, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

Flynn's concern could factor into decisions about how to respond to Mueller's ongoing investigation. The special counsel is looking into Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign as well as the business dealings of key campaign advisers to President Donald Trump. Flynn's wife, Lori, shares his concerns about their son's possible legal exposure, according to a person who knows the family.

Interviews conducted by special counsel investigators have included questions about the business dealings of Flynn and his son such as their firm's reporting of income from work overseas, two witnesses interviewed by the team told CNN. The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) requires people acting as agents of foreign entities to publicly disclose their relationship with foreign countries or businesses and financial compensation for such work.

Flynn Jr., who served as his father's chief of staff and top aide, was actively involved in his father's consulting and lobbying work at their firm, Flynn Intel Group. That included joining his father on overseas trips, such as Moscow in December 2015. During that trip, Flynn dined with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a black-tie gala for the RT television network, which US intelligence views as a Russian propaganda outlet. Flynn's business dealings have been the subject of federal investigation since November 2016, prior to Mueller's appointment in May. Flynn is also under legal scrutiny by Mueller's team for undisclosed lobbying that he did during the presidential campaign on behalf of the Turkish government, according to sources familiar with the matter. It's against the law to lobby in the United States on behalf of a foreign government without informing the Justice Department. Another area of interest to Mueller's team is Flynn's alleged participation in discussions about the idea of removing a Turkish cleric who has been living in exile in Pennsylvania, sources said. In the past, a spokesman for Flynn has denied that such discussions occurred.

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#243191: May 22nd 2018 at 3:10:41 PM

[up][up][up]

Some of "the elites" do rather need a kicking at present, though. Just because they're populist doesn't mean they're wrong, and I have no idea how the Democrats will manage any kind of sizable victory if their only policies seem to be "we're not Trump and/or obviously racist". I like some of the stuff on their platform, especially the anti-trust laws, but you can't exactly gain new voters with a promise to strengthen this agency or weaken that one, meddle with taxes to the tune of a few percent and being generally nice. There's no vision there.

On the international front I'm rather hoping that the deadlocked isolationist mess the US seems to be stuck in for at least a few months might allow us Brits to push more towards Remain. I know that's probably no silver lining for you, and it's not much of a hope here either, but I'll take any help we can get to avoid shooting ourselves in the foot before alienating everyone other than maybe the States.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#243192: May 22nd 2018 at 3:16:35 PM

Define "The Elites". Does that just mean "the liberals"? Because that's always the impression I get to the point where complaining about "the elites" is not something I can readily take seriously.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#243193: May 22nd 2018 at 3:24:20 PM

What does one call the Congressmen owned by corporations?

Oh right, Republicans.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#243194: May 22nd 2018 at 3:25:55 PM

[up][up] Not sure if this is what they mean, but I would define "the elite" as the insanely rich, corrupt "oligarchs", that believe that their money and influence puts them above the law.

All the Trumps, Mercers, Kotchs, and Putins of the world, who all are conspiring to put an end to Western Democracy as we know it, all to protect their business empires and further their awful agendas.

edited 22nd May '18 3:31:38 PM by megaeliz

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#243195: May 22nd 2018 at 3:27:51 PM

The thing is you rarely, if ever, hear about "the elite" being applied to conservatives.

edited 22nd May '18 3:28:09 PM by sgamer82

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#243196: May 22nd 2018 at 3:29:19 PM

So, no comments on the story that Trump outright admitted that he keeps using the term "Fake news" because he wants people to not believe anything they say?

Not that this is surprising, but it's nice to have confirmation. This is dictatorship shit right here.

edited 22nd May '18 3:33:44 PM by speedyboris

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#243197: May 22nd 2018 at 3:30:19 PM

Depending on who is talking to, "elites" can also be a code word for "Jews". And Jewish people also tend to get stereotyped as super liberal anyway.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#243198: May 22nd 2018 at 3:30:52 PM

"Elites" just means any group of rich or powerful individuals the person in question dislikes and thinks is responsible for their problems.

And that's not necessarily even wrong sometimes; like liz said a lot of plutocrats are absolute dicks who are causing a lot of problems. However, often the people who use it are pretty selective about who it applies to. For example, a lot of Trump voters seem to think Trump is either not an elite somehow (despite being born into an affluent family and a prestigious education), or that he is one that can be trusted to "drain the swamp", both of which were always transparent lies.

edited 22nd May '18 3:31:53 PM by Draghinazzo

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#243199: May 22nd 2018 at 3:34:40 PM

"Elites = Who I don't like" is a large part of the reason I don't take its use seriously, anymore. In my experience go-to thing for anyone who's either too Left or not Left enough (i.e. the "Establishment")

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#243200: May 22nd 2018 at 3:39:02 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention this but sometimes I've seen it applied to upper middle class liberal people as well, which is pretty silly.


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