TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242851: May 19th 2018 at 3:12:00 PM

Thread (slightly edited for clarity and get to the point)

1. Three months before the 2016 election, DONDON JR. met at Trump Tower with Joel Zamel (an Israeli specialist in social media manipulation) , George Nader (He who FLIPPED and that's key here) and Erik Prince (he who met Putin's cabana boy at the Seychelles, WITH NADER).

2. Why would they meet, you ask? To offer help to the Trump team and to start forging the "relationships" that shaped policy well into Trump's first year in office. Oh, you say? Oh.

3. PRINCE arranged the meeting. Nader told Trump Jr. that crown princes of Saudi Arabia AND UAE were eager to HELP TRUMP WIN THE ELECTION. As you know, this very rarely means something perfectly clean and legal.

4. The Israel social media manipulation specialist, Joel Zamel, "extolled his company's ability to give an edge to a political campaign" & presented a multimillion-dollar proposal for a social media manipulation effort to help elect Trump.

5. The company, which employed several Israeli former intelligence officers, specialized in collecting info and shaping opinion through social media. Reminder that Mueller has been PROBING WIKISTRAT, the consulting firm founded by Joel Zamel. See here.

6. Mueller asked Zamel questions about NADER bc of their business relationship. It looks like Nader is smack at the centre of everything here bc NADER? Is also in the middle of Prince's Seychelles meeting with Putin's cabana boy. And? NADER FLIPPED.

7. In previous April report about Zamel the WSJ said "Mr. Mueller’s team also asked Mr. Zamel questions about his work, including for certain clients, the person said. The ultimate target of this line of inquiry is unknown". I'd say today we can say Don Jr/Kushner/campaign?

8. After Trump was elected, Nader paid Zamel a sum of money around $2 mln according to an associate. A company linked to Zamel provided Nader with an "elaborate presentation about the significance of social media campaigning to Trump's victory". Oh, sounds VERY familiar. Trolls.

9. I don't know about you but this sounds like there may have been a certain um, COORDINATION with Russia troll factories here. At least to deliver the same message.

10. As we knew from April re: Zamel and previously re: Prince, Mueller is all over it. What we didn't know is that DON JR. is directly involved and Mueller is specifically looking at THESE interactions. Hey Jr.? Better start getting worried, bc NADER FLIPPED.

11. Well I said it sounded like they may have at least coordinated with Russia on message and NYT tells us that Mueller is investigating this "help" and whether this assistance was coordinated with Russia. Guess it is THAT obvious.

12. Investigators hae questioned numerous witnesses in DC, New York, Atlanta, Tel aviv and elsewhere about "what foreign help may have been pledged or accepted" and about the above-mention potential coordination with Russia. Oh.

13. NYT then brings in a little bit of obvious "The interviews, some in recent weeks, are further evidence that Muelelr's investigation remains in an intense phase even as Trump's lawyers are publicly calling for Mueller to bring it to a close." Err thank you, Captain Obvious.

24. This is why flipping people matters so much, bc Nader has been providing direct evidence of all this to Mueller. And HE WAS THERE and he has multiple witnesses, meaning there's "nowhere to run to baby, and nowhere to hide" for Prince, Trump jr. et al.

25. Reminder: Zamel's companies ALSO have ties to Russia. One of his firms had previously worked for Oleg DERIPASKA (duh) and Dmitry Rybolovlev (the fertilizer king who bought the Florida Trump mansion for DOUBLE the market price only to NEVER live there & tear it down).

26. "Mr. Nader’s visits to Russia and the work Mr. Zamel’s companies did for the Russians have both been a subject of interest to the special counsel’s investigators, according to people familiar with witness interviews." Nooo, you don't say?

27. So on Aug 3, 2016 when the meeting between Nader, Zamel, Prince and Don Jr. took place, Nader and Zamel were together at a Midtown Manhattan hotel and received the call from Prince summoning them. W Hen they arrived, STEPHEN MILLER was in Jr's office too. Oh, A TREASON BASH!

28. Prince opened the meeting by telling Jr. "we are working hard for your father" (Jesus, who gave NYT all this? They're clearly eager to put out ALL the deets.) Prince then introduced Nader as an old friend with deep ties to Arab leaders (no kidding).

30. Nader told Jr. that the crown princes saw Trump as a strong leader (yeah the leader of liars! BIG time!) that would "fill the ME power vacuum left by Obama" and he & his friends would be glad to support Trump "as much as they could", per NYT.

31. Zamel instead laid out the capabilities of his online media company. Unclear whether he referred to the proposals his company had already prepared. Nader then invited Don Jr. to meet with a Saudi prince. Jr was all "nah, thanks". this is priceless

32. After about half an hour, everyone exchanged business cards. Well yeah, it doesn't take that long to agree on a common goal. Note: Zamel's company plan involved using thousands of FAKE social media accounts to promote Trump's candidacy on FB. Oh, JUST LIKE RUSSIANS?

33. "There were concerns inside the company, Psy-Group, about the plan's legality". YA THINK? I am LOL bc the NYT actually PUBLISHED one of the Nader photos with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. As in "WE HAVE RECEIPTS, despite what you're saying, Saudi Arabia spokesperson."

34. Also this Psy-Group Zamel company consulted an American law firm and was told "well ya know, we appreciate your eagerness to help but see, it is a tad ILLEGAL if any NON-American was involved in the effort." Guess they got the message when they saw Mueller's RU indictments.

35. New detail on what Mueller has done re: Zamel is that his team has worked with Israeli police to SEIZE the computers of one of Zamel's companies, which is currently in liquidation. Oh that karma. She is a beeyotch.

36. This Zamel shady dude has links to a BUNCH of companies and in Dec. 2016, Nader turned to an internet company linked to him, Whitete Knight, to purchase a presentation demonstrating the impact of social media campaigns on Trump's victory. What a COINCIDENCE. LOL

37. And for the final kicker, which we already knew re: Nader, BOTH Zamel AND Nader visited WH after the inauguration, meeting with Kushner and Bannon (Nader also had contacts with Flynn).

38. Nader was shopping an "Iran sabotage plan" to forge them to permanently give up their nuclear program. Nader reportedly tried to persuade Kushner to endorse the plan to Crown Prince Mohammed in person on a trip to Riyadh. No Georgie, Jared only cares about MONEY for his co.

40. The short for this is: It smells like treason all around Don Jr., Kushner and the entire Trump gang. And Saudi Arabia, UAE and a firm owned by an Israeli, specializing in social media manipulation, may have coordinated with Russia in illegal efforts to influence the election.

41. Bc Nader FLIPPED and he has has direct ties to Russia, travelled to Moscow on behalf of the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, organized the meeting in the Seycheles between Erik Prince and Putin's cabana boy re: back channel with Russia for the Trump admin, etc? Mueller has it ALL.

42. It is a matter of WHEN, my friends, not IF. The matter is WHEN Mueller decides that it's time to unleash a bunch of indictments, not IF he will. I know it's hard to sit and wait, but this news? Is great for us and awful for Trump. Fear not: #Mueller IS Coming. /END.

Between this, Russia, and Cambridge analytica, I can now definitively say that this election was stolen from us. It's impossible to deny that this wouldn't have had effects on the vote, and maybe even enough to change the outcome.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#242852: May 19th 2018 at 3:31:34 PM

So what's the Cliff Notes version?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#242853: May 19th 2018 at 3:34:02 PM

They definitely had meetings with Russians to sway the elections,the gist of it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#242854: May 19th 2018 at 4:34:16 PM

So is it fair to blame Seychelles for this as well as Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia and the UAE? Or did their government have nothing to do with this and Prince just picked it for a meeting because they are pretty much in the middle of nowhere?

edited 19th May '18 5:14:21 PM by Wariolander

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#242856: May 19th 2018 at 5:10:07 PM

[up] Their bank secrecy laws also make them a popular location for offshore accounts, so it’s probably just a convenient meeting place for those kinds of people.

edited 19th May '18 5:10:49 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242857: May 19th 2018 at 5:28:33 PM

[up] this would also mean that Erik Prince (of Darkness) lied to congress twice.

A while back it was revealed that he lied about the meeting between him and Dmitriev, saying that the meeting was by chance, and now it's revealed that he also lied about not having direct contact with the Trump campaign. (Granted, it was a pretty obvious lie, but now we have evidence) [1]

edited 19th May '18 5:33:55 PM by megaeliz

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242858: May 19th 2018 at 7:03:27 PM

One more tweet tonight.

If the FBI or DOJ was infiltrating a campaign for the benefit of another campaign, that is a really big deal. Only the release or review of documents that the House Intelligence Committee (also, Senate Judiciary) is asking for can give the conclusive answers. Drain the Swamp!

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#242859: May 19th 2018 at 7:30:10 PM

Yeah, Seychelles is basically synonymous with 'offshore account' and other shady practices, as far as I know, so.

It's been fun.
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#242860: May 19th 2018 at 8:02:07 PM

Europe is starting to fear that the US is lost for good and the blend of unilateralism, nationalism and protectionism Trump embodies may be the new American normal: https://tinyurl.com/yd4ghgu3

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242861: May 19th 2018 at 8:13:49 PM

[up] This is most certainly not the new normal.

Every day I grow more certain that this election was stolen from us, but now that we, or at least a good chunk of us are aware of the existential threat to our democracy, it looses a lot of power. We are awake, and we are finally starting to fight back, hobbled as we may be.

Imca (Veteran)
#242862: May 19th 2018 at 8:45:44 PM

[up] Your looking at it the wrong way, the problem isn't that Trump won..... The problem is that he was ever in a position to win in the first place.

Even with influencing over the election, no voting machines were hacked, just the rolls, nothing was changed.... just ultra targeted adverts and media influences used.... people voted this way because they belived in the message of a xenophobic rapist.... there vote wasn't changed by force, it was changed by desire.

And the simple fact, that a xenophobic rapist, was seen as a better candidate then a qualified woman with a life time of political experience behind her that the election was that close, that him winning was ever a posibility.... says every thing that needs to be said about America right at the moment.

Even if Hillary had won the electoral collage, this wouldn't change, nearly half the voters voted Trump, it was close and it never should have been.

edited 19th May '18 8:47:33 PM by Imca

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242863: May 19th 2018 at 8:48:57 PM

People argue otherwise but I maintain Trump won because people were and rightly so, sick of the previous government and its corruption.

They wanted dramatic change.

And they got tripling down.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#242864: May 19th 2018 at 8:59:36 PM

By the standards of corrupt governments, the previous US administration doesn't even register.

"We're sick of corruption, so we'll elect the most inherently corrupt bastard we can" doesn't even justify that sort of nonsense. It's incredibly gullible to think someone who sells themselves entirely on image, and who's been in business for decades, will be less corrupt than a bunch of lawyers.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#242865: May 19th 2018 at 9:00:33 PM

The Europeans aren't wrong but this isn't a resent issue. It's all been a part of our country from the very beginning, the rampant xenophobia and racism, the near-mindless nationalism, the business controling members of government. Trump is just the logical conclusion to all those things and that's why so many voted for him, he's the living embodiment of everything we were founded on.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#242866: May 19th 2018 at 9:00:40 PM

[up][up][up]The Obama administration was one of the cleanest presidencies in living memory. "Corruption," my ass. They didn't give a shit about corruption, deep down. Look who they voted for.

edited 19th May '18 9:15:30 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#242867: May 19th 2018 at 9:02:48 PM

Seems like something people say to avoid admitting that a lot of Trump voters are not good people.

edited 19th May '18 9:03:12 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242868: May 19th 2018 at 9:04:20 PM

A lot of people took Trump genuinely being boorish and gaudy as him being honest and "telling it like it is".

Even being generous and ignoring the racist conations of him "telling it like it is", it's still pretty hard to take seriously, especially with all the information publicly available about how slimy he is.

edited 19th May '18 9:05:17 PM by LSBK

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#242869: May 19th 2018 at 9:10:37 PM

The same people that claimed Trump "told it like it is" now have to scramble to make whatever horrible thing Trump said recently seem reasonable. "No, what he meant to say was..."

i'm tired, my friend
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242870: May 19th 2018 at 9:16:34 PM

That's one reason I'm a believer in karma, right there.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#242871: May 19th 2018 at 9:22:12 PM

[up] Karma would be Trump's poor diet catching up to him.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242872: May 19th 2018 at 9:27:12 PM

That would be karma for Trump. [up][up][up] Is karma for the people who have to justify him after helping him get elected.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242873: May 19th 2018 at 9:47:38 PM

The argument for Trump was that the corruption was endemic to both parties.

And the Republican party IS every bit as corrupt as Trump claimed.

More so even as it's committing treason, obstruction, and accepting bribes on a massive scale. It needs to be dismantled and a replacement provided.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242874: May 19th 2018 at 9:49:41 PM

There's corruption because humans are involved, but the Democrats just aren't anywhere near as corrupt as the Republicans. If you want to fix that, you don't put the Republicans (especially Trump's ilk) in power.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242875: May 19th 2018 at 10:04:23 PM

Yes, Trump lied about both economics as well as fighting corruption.

Both cornerstones of his campaign.

Color me surprised!

sarcasm

Who could have guessed Trump was a liar?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Total posts: 417,856
Top